Gaiman Contest Submission, crits/suggestions please :)
GOOF-MD | 01/25/2006 @453 | edit post

Hey, a specialty bookstore chain is sponsoring a comic and short story contest sponsored (judged???) by Neil Gaiman. The prize money is substantial so i'm hoping to do well since i'll need the money soon as i've decided to put my med career on hold to see if i can break into the comics biz...so no salary for the next few months...maybe years? Living off my rapidly dwindling savings Oh and the best thing is...all the winners get published in a compilation Anyhoo, the comic is 12 pages, black and white, grayscale allowed. I've only done the first page so far, which you can see here... Check out the Larger version It's about 90% complete, just have to fix stuff in the first panel, the moons (yes, there are 4). the forest and the river which i can't seem to figure out how to do...the shading and rendering isn't complete either. The rest of the panels are pretty much done. Original size is 12x18 but it'll be printed at 7-8x11. I can't ink, so don't even mention it I'm hoping that i can print out the submissions it a way that it'll look smooth and finished. PS adjusted conrast, will blacken the borders in PS too (in this page, the borders are wide because that's where i'll be putting the text...it won't be like that in the other pages). It's the first page, so there's not much to understand, the 1st panel is just the establishing shot, and the rest just show us the characters involved...don't worry it'll make sense with the captions in and with all 12 pages read together. Hope you guys have time to give me some crits/suggestions/comments...whatever your time allows. I really need some feedback and encouragement on this one and all my friends happen to be the competition so.... Major alterations I probably won't have time to do, but rest assured any small thing you notice or suggest that can improve it, i WILL do. Thanks

Re: Gaiman Contest Submission, crits/suggestions p
PeterGrave5 | 01/26/2006 @034 | edit post

the river in the first frame almost feels like its flowing up and away, which is puzzling, i think its because it tapers that direction...hope that helps a little, personally i love this, so far so good, i mean yeah, the is much more finished and polished than your other work...this is good stuff....seriously...some darker lines around the castle and the river couldn't harm it too much, the first panel has a strange elevation issue, but in my opinion this is right up gaimans alley...hey maybe some small white water affects could help straight out the flow issues with the river.

Re: Gaiman Contest Submission, crits/suggestions p
GOOF-MD | 01/26/2006 @280 | edit post

thanks, good points. I've never done landscapes much before, so the composition was difficult for me especially without a lot of reference to work with, and i started stuffing things in there just to fill it up. will work on the rendering more, but probably can't change the layout much/ aside from composition, i'm not used to pulling out of a shot after years of doing mostly medium close up shots. something i'll have to work on. i'm considering doing some minimal photo manips to improve that panel...not sure if it will help my chances though if the judges don't want to see CG stuff. thanks again, appreciate it. anyone else? c'mon....

Re: Gaiman Contest Submission, crits/suggestions p
Xris | 01/26/2006 @331 | edit post

First - love your linework Gian. Clean and confident. You're working some good ideas here IMO. If it's a competition, try not to stray too far from your usual haunts and techniques - this way you won't be thrown off onto too many tangents, which can be frustrating and timewasting when you need calm and as much time as you can use on the task at hand. 'S just my attitude to comps, which works well for me, most of the time Congrats on your new 0.3 And best wishes with it too! Incidentally, I've found that 0.3 are good for fine detail work, whilst 0.5 are good for any tight shading. (Thanks muchly for the PM btw) Pencil landscapes: If you can, try and employ tighter linework/detail and more contrast on foreground objects. This will offer you a 'layered' depth effect. If you can push it a step further, try for a medium tone and detailing for the mid ground, and of course softer and lighter for bg to horizon. Likewise, any organics (trees, grass etc) in the foreground - try and add some detail here - it's takes time for what feels like time-wasting, but the time spent here pays you back in high dividends. Even just an overhanging branch or two, vines, or a few blades of tall grass just coming into the frame will do, if youre not confident enough to tackle trees or groups of trees close up. It all enhances the depth of your image. It's often felt that monochromatic mediums lack the functionality and flexibility of colour... I would question this. Regardless, every 'trick' you can add to your pencil 'toolbox' moves you steps further away from any apparent lack of flexibility. Shading of course is one of the main tools, whilst close attention to light in all it's attributes further enhance the mono picture. Any technique you can attain to add depth will pay you back in kind too. Your contrast on the far tower is stronger than your foreground, so flattens everything out. Your figures are very good Gian... particularly suited to ink tinting. Ever tried inks? (I'm not suggesting you try it for the comp, if you haven't). Your figures and confident outline technique bring Ivan Bilibin to mind. Check him out if you get the chance.... right up your street, I should think I really like the feel to this work. I look forward very much to watching how this develops and will follow it closely. Good luck! Xris [Message edited on 01/26 @358]

Re: Gaiman Contest Submission, crits/suggestions p
GOOF-MD | 01/26/2006 @415 | edit post

XRIS: that's what i'm talking about thanks, your comments suggestions were a big help, i only wish i had some of the BEFORE i started anything, ive a feeling i'd have avoided a LOT of mistakes and head scratching. but thanks, appreciate it greatly. i'll see what i can do to work some of ur suggestions in, if not that page, definitely in succeeding pages. Landscapes: good advice, the kind of thing i would've thought i would know by now, but never entered me mind. thanks i'll try that. the deadline's running close though, so i'm tepted to mix in some photo manips to help with problem areas tried it out on samples, and looks ok. dunno for sure yet if it will help or in the end lower my chances of winning. plus i'm trying to take my on pics to be more original.... organics and depth: always my problem when i pull too far back i get lost in the rendering and the layout, but i'll need to learn quickly, to match the epic feel of the story i want to do i'll need lot of big shots with lots of depth...but already am compromising by changing my original designs to closer shots to play to my strengths....sigh....not what i wanted to do pencil tricks: i know a few but not nearly enough and i'm not thinking as much as i should. inks: hell no, i'd love to learn coz if i ever get into the comics biz inking my own work gives me an advantage as well as the inker's salary too but that's a whole new thing, and i lack the precision and accuracy i'd need. i'm very free with my pencil, lots lots lots of strokes and erasing before i get what i want. maybe someday... thanks for the link, interesting stuff, though i'm very far off from that level of work, that IS somewhat the feel i'd eventually want for my own work, mixed with my own style of course i'll pm you if i ever get the next pages up, but don't feel obligated to give as comprehensive a crit if you don't have time (but if you do...well, obviously i'd be very grateful). Gian

Re: Gaiman Contest Submission, crits/suggestions p
GOOF-MD | 01/29/2006 @363 | edit post

Boo! Anyone there? Well, here's the 2nd page: about 90% finished, i'll leave it like this for a while and come back to it later while i move on to the next pages (still 10 to go). Here's a slightly Larger Version Thanks, to Xris and PeterGrave5 for their help, started putting in some of their ideas, hopefully i'll get it right by the end of this thing. Anyone who can give a comment/crit/suggestion, i really do need it. If not....what the hell (oh the sky is cut from a generic photo, i won't be using that in the final image...just wanted to see what it would look like with photo manip elements) [Message edited on 01/29 @373]

Re: Gaiman Contest Submission, crits/suggestions p
GOOF-MD | 01/31/2006 @255 | edit post

what the....nothing? geez, what's a guy got to do...

Re: Gaiman Contest Submission, crits/suggestions p
GOOF-MD | 01/31/2006 @805 | edit post

Well, third page is done, think its the best so far. Put in some of Xris' suggestions...so that may be it Pretty much finished completely, so i put it in my gallery instead. In case I can trick anyone into actually checking it out and giving me some meaningful crits/reviews you can check it out at Three Swords. Or not. 's okay, I like talking to myself [Message edited on 01/31 @806]

Re: Gaiman Contest Submission, crits/suggestions p
ghost666 | 02/03/2006 @170 | edit post

I think your style is pretty cool BUT............ Your images lack contrast. Every picture is grey, grey and more grey. Whatever happened to black and white?? Try to define the difference between light and dark. [Message edited on 02/03 @171]

Re: Gaiman Contest Submission, crits/suggestions p
GOOF-MD | 02/03/2006 @472 | edit post

just when i thought this thread was dead thanks for the comments, good point, i did want to put in a lot of gray tones, the overall contrast looks better on paper not so much on the screen, i tried adjusting contrast in PS and it did look better, so the final pics will be like that. if you mean contrast in a more specific way between elements within the picture, which i guess you do, i have to admit, the lighting/contrast isn't that dramatic, usually i dont shade that much 'cause i have inking and coloring in mind. Anyway, i DO know what] you mean, and that's one of the things i'm going to go back for and try to improve. if you check the latest page i posted in the gallery: Three Swordsi think there's some improvement in that area as i'm getting used to the whole thing. Thanks again. [Message edited on 02/03 @473]

Re: Gaiman Contest Submission, crits/suggestions p
Rafsan | 02/16/2006 @694 | edit post

hi, if you don't mind, I adjusted two pages in PS with burn/dodge, what do you think....?

Re: Gaiman Contest Submission, crits/suggestions p
GOOF-MD | 02/17/2006 @748 | edit post

damn. that does look better. thanks, i'll be sure to try it myself and with the other pages. thanks. sent you a pm. update. got 8 1/2 pages done, 3 1/2 to go, 1 week to deadline. i'll stop wasting time posting for now and get to it. Thanks for the help guys