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Pencil shading problem
plasticine \| 09/02/2007 @015 \| edit post

Hello everyone =)

I have a little problem, and I though you guys might have some useful tips.

The thing is I’ve been working on a picture in which I mix traditional media and Photoshop. The idea is to do the inking and shading with a pen and a pencil, and then add colour in Photoshop. By using the "multiply" option I wanted to melt the flat Photoshop colours with the pencil shading. The problem is that that the pencil work has this granulated texture that looks horrible when combined with the flat colours.

I figured I could get some good material to get neat and flat traditional media pencil shading, but before I do I was wondering; is there any way to get rid of the pencil texture using Photoshop or other program? and in case there isn't, any recomendations on art supplies (pencils and paper)?

Thanks in advance, love plasticine.

[EDIIT] Here is an example of what I mean, look at the hair (I know it's a lame picture, I just did this one to ilustrate what I mean)

Re: Pencil shading problem
Madster \| 09/02/2007 @298 \| edit post

It depends on a lot of things:
How even the pencil shading is
How much of the pencil work you want to show through the coloring
How you are applying the digital coloring to the pencilwork.

You can totally eliminate the pencil texture, but this brings up the question of why you put so much effort into pencil work that you intended to digitally color. You can also shade with Photoshop, including pencil texture...

Since this is the paint over forum, post the work, and let other members see what it is you are struggling with.

~M

Re: Pencil shading problem
plasticine \| 09/02/2007 @390 \| edit post

_quote:
Madster wrote on 09/02 @298

You can totally eliminate the pencil texture, but this brings up the question of why you put so much effort into pencil work that you intended to digitally color. You can also shade with Photoshop, including pencil texture...

Since this is the paint over forum, post the work, and let other members see what it is you are struggling with.

~M

The problem is that I don't have a tablet, and to do a good shading work with the mouse in Photoshop seems imposible to me. The main problem here is that I have no money, either to buy colours (that's why I colur on PS) or to buy a tablet. The perfect solution would be for me to have a decent amount of art supplies, I defenately prefer traditional media.

[I just posted a crappy sample picture in the first message to show you the problem]

Re: Pencil shading problem
Raphael \| 09/02/2007 @585 \| edit post

Hi Plasticine, a few solutions present themselves.

If I was mouse-reliant in your position I would create 3 layers in Photoshop: The colour layer, the shading layer and the linework layer. Use the selection tools to separate off the Lines from your shading. I would then use the Linework layer to select the areas inside those lines and use the Gaussian Blur filter to smooth the shading whilst keeping it inside the lines.

You may then need to duplicate the Shading layer in order to darken the shading back to what it was (use the layer transparency settings to adjust this to taste).

Hope that helps

[Message edited on 09/02 @586]

Re: Pencil shading problem
plasticine \| 09/02/2007 @619 \| edit post

_quote:
Raphael wrote on 09/02 @585
Use the selection tools to separate off the Lines from your shading.

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean by that, using the magic wand, right?

I thought I coud scan the picture with the lineart to colour(because without a clean lineart I can't select with the magic wand to delimitate the areas to colour) Then add the shading, scan it again once the shading is done, and overlap it with the lineart and the flat PS colours.

I will try to smoothen the pencil texture with the gaussian blur, I'll post a picture of how it works.

Thank's for the tip Raphael =)

[Message edited on 09/02 @623]

Re: Pencil shading problem
Raphael \| 09/02/2007 @647 \| edit post

I would use the Polygonal Lasso tool to select the areas inside the lines and press Control + Shift +J to lift them onto a new layer.

Re: Pencil shading problem
plasticine \| 09/02/2007 @657 \| edit post

_quote:
Raphael wrote on 09/02 @647
I would use the Polygonal Lasso tool to select the areas inside the lines and press Control + Shift +J to lift them onto a new layer.

That sounds easier than what I just did =S this is the result using the gaussian blur. I think it might work, it looks fine to me (considering the crappy sketch and shading I did of course)

Re: Pencil shading problem
Daykan \| 09/03/2007 @984 \| edit post

Now see better!

Re: Pencil shading problem
Madster \| 09/03/2007 @072 \| edit post

Looks mucho gooder! For no tablet, and only mousework, I think you did a pretty good job!

~M

Re: Pencil shading problem
plasticine \| 09/03/2007 @371 \| edit post

Thanks guys =)

I have to run a few tests though, to see what works better. I think watercolour shading instead of pencil might work as well, and there would be no need to do the gaussian blur.

I did this sketch, and I plan to ink it and photocopy it, I will try both techniques and then post the results here. Paint this one over if you please since I'm not inking this untill tonight.

I would love to hear what you guys think when I'm done, before moving to more complex pieces.

[Message edited on 09/03 @374]

Re: Pencil shading problem
Daykan \| 09/03/2007 @851 \| edit post

This last it´s a great sketch!

Re: Pencil shading problem
killadore \| 09/04/2007 @960 \| edit post

i like how dynamic both sketches look in spite of their simplicity. great work!

Re: Pencil shading problem
plasticine \| 09/04/2007 @759 \| edit post

Thanks you both, I really apreciate the feedback =)

I try to keep it as simple as posible killadore because I do comics, dinamics ar importat to me, because I hate those lines indicating movement on comics >(

And here's the watercolour try!

I don't think the smooth and soft nature of watercolour goes too well with the strong digital color, I don't like it that much =\

[Message edited on 09/04 @759]

Re: Pencil shading problem
killadore \| 09/04/2007 @850 \| edit post

hmm, i would just pick a lot less saturated colors to paint it with digitally. then it should be fine. the watercolor could be smoother for a better effect

Re: Pencil shading problem
plasticine \| 09/05/2007 @383 \| edit post

_quote:
killadore wrote on 09/04 @850
hmm, i would just pick a lot less saturated colors to paint it with digitally. then it should be fine. the watercolor could be smoother for a better effect

I just tryed with less saturated colors. About making the watercolor smoother, maybe you are right, the watercolour work is too dirty

Still it the shadows doesn't look too consistent.

(edit) Forgot to say thank you Mariam, those were very usefull tips.

[Message edited on 09/05 @507]

Re: Pencil shading problem
Daykan \| 09/05/2007 @930 \| edit post

_quote:
plasticine wrote on 09/05 @383

I just tryed with less saturated colors. About making the watercolor smoother, maybe you are right, the watercolour work is too dirty

Te diré, he trabajado con acuarelas desde siempre, y nunca me pareció un resultado tan sucio, es cuestión de encontrarle la vuelta. Voy a tratar de enviarte alguna de mias más viejas imágenes para que veas, y si te interesa, te digo cómo usaba yo las acuarelas.
____________
I will say to you, I have worked with watercolors from always, and it never seemed to me a so dirty result, is question to find the return him. I am going to deal with enviarte some of mias older images so that you see, and if it interests to you, I say to you how I used them watercolors.

[Message edited on 09/05 @932]

Re: Pencil shading problem
plasticine \| 09/06/2007 @911 \| edit post

And here is the pencil, the gaussian blur makes it look too blury I think =/

So, withch one do you guys like best, watercolours or pencil?

Re: Pencil shading problem
Madster \| 09/07/2007 @856 \| edit post

_quote:
plasticine wrote on 09/06 @911
... So, withch one do you guys like best, watercolours or pencil?

Actually, both/neither. The pencil shading maked any coloring look kind of "dirty," like the shaded half of the face. The gray looks out of place, visually.
The watercolor was too timid in hue, making comparing the watercolor to the pencil like comparing apples and oranges, because you have such a difference in color intensity.

Here is the watercolor version, in Photoshop, with the saturation turned up. I then used the Paint tool, and added some highlights and some shadows, and then used the surface blur tool to smooth things (I'm using CS2).

Direct link for those who cannot see the image:
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/4062/psboy2sl0.jpg

If you're going to color in Photoshop, consider making your pencil sketch more color cooperative with your intended palette by colorizing it under Image>Adjustments>Hue&Saturation, and color on a separate layer, so you can then change the Blending Mode.

Hope this helps!
~M

[Message edited on 09/07 @859]

Re: Pencil shading problem
plasticine \| 09/08/2007 @438 \| edit post

_quote:
Madster wrote on 09/07 @856
Actually, both/neither. The pencil shading maked any coloring look kind of "dirty," like the shaded half of the face. The gray looks out of place, visually.

The watercolor was too timid in hue, making comparing the watercolor to the pencil like comparing apples and oranges, because you have such a difference in color intensity.

If you're going to color in Photoshop, consider making your pencil sketch more color cooperative with your intended palette by colorizing it under Image>Adjustments>Hue&Saturation, and color on a separate layer, so you can then change the Blending Mode.

Hope this helps!
~M

The colorizing option works great with the pencil! Still the gray is defenately out of place, I will have to re-consider the way I pencil shade if I want it to look integrated with photoshop color, or even work with black ink or markers.

The watercolor work was crappy, I will have to make it fuller and the tones more even.

I'm not sure how to fix the dirty quality of the result =\ I think the problem is mainly my shading with traditional media, I'll work on that.

Thanks for your tips madster, they were really helpful =)

[Message edited on 09/08 @442]

Re: Pencil shading problem
plasticine \| 09/08/2007 @444 \| edit post

Forgot to put the version done applying madster's suggestions =p

I'm open to suggestions from everyone. I'll be working on this until it looks right, because I believe it can work just fine, I just have to figure out the right way to do it.

Besides, experiments are fun =p

Re: Pencil shading problem
Daykan \| 09/08/2007 @866 \| edit post

Really nice! Now i´m really busy, sorry, but in two days i´ll send you the notes about watercolours!

Re: Pencil shading problem
plasticine \| 09/08/2007 @926 \| edit post

_quote:
Daykan wrote on 09/08 @866
Really nice! Now i´m really busy, sorry, but in two days i´ll send you the notes about watercolours!

Like I told you, take all the time you need =) I'm not in hurry and neither should you be.

Re: Pencil shading problem
Zazill \| 11/02/2007 @495 \| edit post

Hey i hope this isnt useless now but :

First off, do u have black ink pens? They help alot.
What i did when i had to use the mouse but wanted to keep the pencil shading was to firstly just do the outlines. Make them thick and dark - no shading and i made sure all the lines are closed, making it possible to use the magic wand tool instead of the point to point lasso tool.. Scan the image and save it. Then i add the pencil shading with an H2 pencil, because thats what i preferred and scan the final result in on a new layer.

Hope this helps, but if u ever can buy a tablet, don't hesitate . initially i wanted to upgrade my computer because my CS stall about every two minutes but i went for the tablet instead, everything is easier.

Peace

Z

Re: Pencil shading problem
Millink \| 11/02/2007 @900 \| edit post

Dont know anything about this, Im just here to tell you that I think your style is awesome! Very nice to look at

Re: Pencil shading problem
plasticine \| 11/06/2007 @563 \| edit post

I usually do the black ink pen thing, because it is so much easier to colour that way. In fact I've tried what you said, my final version of the picture in my gallery is done just the way you have suggested. I think that's defenately the best way to do it. Anyways I'm dying to save enough money for a tablet. Thanks for the tip Zazill

Oh, And thanks for the nice comment Millink, glad you like my style =)

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