Cloud9internet Logo and identity
cloud9internet | 12/15/2007 @843 | edit post

Hi All... new to the site, and the reason i'm here, is I need your help.. I Run a Webdesign company called Cloud 9 Internet and I am in need of a new look /identity but mainly a new funky logo. http://www.cloud9internet.co.uk I would like to put out a challenge in the form of a contest/competition to help me with this, the best design to win A Web Hosting Package... with .co.uk domain of your choice and : * Webspace: Unlimited * Data Transfer: Unlimited * Email Mail Boxes (POP3 or IMAP): 500 * Email Autoresponders: 500 * Email Distribution Lists: 500 * Email Forwarders: Unlimited * Catch-All Email: Unlimited * Junk Mail Filters: Unlimited * WebMail: Unlimited 1 GB Mail Boxes * MySQL Databases: Unlimited * FTP Accounts: Unlimited * Sub Domains: Unlimited * FrontPage Extensions * Perl, PHP4, PHP5, Python, Miva, Sun ASP, Ruby * eXtend Control Panel * £300 Software and Free Web Tools * Webalizer & AWStats Graphical Statistics * Site Management Tools * Massive CGI Script Library * Blogs and CMS include Joomla!, Mambo, Geeklog & More * Gallery2, MediaWiki, SugarCRM, RoundCube Webmail & More Please take a look at the site,and send me your ideas in the form of psd files please sales@cloud9internet.co.uk Steve Hutchinson

Re: Cloud9internet Logo and identity
arenhaus | 12/17/2007 @402 | edit post

For everyone's information, such a package costs about $7 / month with most American commercial web host companies. So you will be doing speculative work for less than peanuts, because the "contest" originator "pays" with what they have at great surplus and what can be had dirt-cheap on the market - with no guarantee you'd get anything. If they were serious about it, they'd find a designer and commission the corporate style for proper pay. These attempts to rip off art students are deplorable. Irredeemable time of your life invested into a promise of cheap web hosting? Think twice. Say no to speculative work. [Message edited on 12/17 @402]

Re: Cloud9internet Logo and identity
soulja | 12/17/2007 @520 | edit post

agree. i think you won't convince a mechanic to repair your car with such a contest either.

Re: Cloud9internet Logo and identity
BaronImpossible | 12/17/2007 @559 | edit post

How professional... not

Re: Cloud9internet Logo and identity
Madster | 12/17/2007 @673 | edit post

If you do NOT have your own webspace, and you do NOT have a spare $7-10 a month (that's $84 -$120/yr) to spend on web space, and you are tired of the "free" web hosting with ads and other stuff, there is NOTHING wrong with this. "Irredeemable time of your life," my behind! The time I spend picking my nose is "irredeemable time of my life," but if I feel like doing it, or scratching my butt, or just staring off into space, that's MY choice for MY time, not yours. I have something like 150 Gb with my web package, so I certainly don't need the site, but am working on a "spec" entry, just for the exercise. If I DO create the look they want, I'd give the webspace to some friends in the UK, who are currently using free hosting. You elitist naysayers crack me up. No one is taking any food out of your mouth by doing this sort of thing. Just like no one is taking any money out of your pocket by asking for such work. Although it makes you all sound so sage and staunch in defending the imagined "rights" of artists and illustrators, it's actually quite petty and more "sour grapes" than anything else. With the BILLIONS of people on this planet, there are more than enough students, part-timers, and hobbiests willing to play, experiment, or hone their skills by doing spec work for free or little compensation. Get over yourselves. Chase those jobs that pay you what you think you're worth, but don't waste your time trying to convince the rest of the world to "hold out" against such offers. Experience is the best teacher. What better way for someone to learn than to try. Those so skillful and talented (think Ryan Church level, here) to not need such speculative work experience probably would not do the job for the small $$$ most people can budget for such designs. That should not doom them to a less attractive site because it's some unwritten "sin" to offer mere web space in exchange for a good design. And a LOT of people don't have the talent or skills to design their own sites. I say GIVE your work away, until such time that you can trade something for it, or charge for it. When you get good enough, people WANT to pay you for your skills. That's how it works. It's NOT an entitlement, no matter how much schooling you have or how big your portfolio. You stand a FAR better chance of getting SOMETHING in return for it, than just painting the stuff and only posting it on art forums... This is a more than fair enough offer, and a more than fair enough competition. You don't wanna play? Then DON'T. But PLEASE don't put down a barter offer simply because YOU don't think the payoff is high enough. Pfah! ~M [Message edited on 12/17 @677]

Re: Cloud9internet Logo and identity
soulja | 12/17/2007 @697 | edit post

don't be so angry... it's just about not accepting media design as a profession like any other professions. by making such offers, he is actually taking the food off the mouth of media designers. developing a logo costs up to 2000 euro in my country.. and that's legitimate. i don't think a competition (which inludes losing) is equal to that. have you ever tried going to 5 different printers and asking him to print something for you, and then picking the best result and pay for only that? i think not. and if printers (or anybody else with any profession) aren't working for free, why should media designers do that? thats something, many people don't understand.. they think it's all about fun making designs... by doing this, you not only do something stupid, you are also taking away a job from a media designer. ps: i think, if it's too expensive for him to let it be developed professionally, he should try to make is on his own, and live with an unprofessional logo for an unprofessional website. [Message edited on 12/17 @700]

Re: Cloud9internet Logo and identity
Wysiwyg | 12/17/2007 @739 | edit post

The pitchforks have been coming out in spades as of late, but there are some shady people out there looking for a free ride, but it seems it's been 'guilty until proven innocent' lately. This latest thread was very upfront about what they expected to get and give in return. This type of honesty doesn't need to be met with such negativity. If you don't like it...then don't post. If you feel it is misleading, then by all means post a query with the thread author to elaborate on. But it is ultimately the individual's choice, and some may not care about the money....and just want to create something to be used by someone else. I see the point of those posting...I used to be right there in the middle of the lot, but honestly, no one is going to learn until they get their feet wet in the industry. And like I said, some may not care to do this for a living...if you yourself are good enough, you won't be affect too much by this as if you product is good enough, people will pay for it.

Re: Cloud9internet Logo and identity
soulja | 12/17/2007 @767 | edit post

why shouldn't i post if i dislike something? am i only allowed to talk about things i like? my point just was to make people think about it. i didn't throw in bad language or something, i just wrote arguments, whats wrong with that? i don't think, that this offer isn't real, but my opinion stays the same. okay, i made my point, won't come back to read anymore, everybody is free to make his own choices.

Re: Cloud9internet Logo and identity
arenhaus | 12/19/2007 @378 | edit post

Arguments like "but there are people who can't afford it, it could be a saver for them" are poison, really. These people who can't afford cheap hosting will go on not being able to afford cheap hosting if they continue to agree to work for peanuts. If they were properly paid for a project like this, then they'd be able to buy hosting from the company of their choice, and have a great surplus left. If they accept work on such terms, they get paid next to nothing, still aren't able to afford hosting (they are locked in and at mercy of the particular provider whom they can't leave without paying to someone else), and have undermined the marketplace by rewarding freebie seekers - essentially helping to ensure that their future contracts will be more like this and less like fair compensation. This is exploitation of the desperate and driving professionals to desperation. Nothing elitist about it; visual design is a hard skill - and a free market. Undermining any market results in hurting many people in the long run for a short-term benefit of few. Motivation (poverty, or not valuing one's work, or whatnot) matters little in that.

Re: Cloud9internet Logo and identity
arenhaus | 12/19/2007 @380 | edit post

P.S. Madster - you did not read the original post. This was not a "barter offer" as you say. If it were it'd be really meager but not speculative. This was an offer of "do us many free designs and if we like one of them we will give its creator something". All the rest "contestants" would end up having done real work for no pay at all. Please pay closer attention if you bother to reply. It would help you avoid creating unnecessary drama.