Competitions are for Entering, NOT Insulting! - GFXartist.com

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Competitions are for Entering, NOT Insulting!
Madster \| 12/17/2007 @710 \| edit post

This is a forum GFX Competitions, with the description, "Community driven competitions."

At present, there are 63 threads in this forum, 16 of which never got any reply, and 5 of which are Administrative threads.
This leaves 42 Competition Threads.

With the exception of GFX contests, which have rewarded various prizes, few of extremely high value ($500 or more), almost every other competition posted here has been put down, ridiculed, and harassed by the "No Free Spec Work" elitists, who feel every single art job needs to pay accepted Union market scale for consideration.

While most posts are merely snarky and sarcastic in shaming anyone for even considering to post a competition not sufficiently rewarding enough to this group, there are some who are downright rude in their response, with insulting accusations, and demands for thread locking, banning, and the like.

Even the GFX competitions see a large amount of empty lip service, and very little acutal participation, with only a few individuals consistently participating (and often winning due to lack of competition), and a lot of competitions cancelled due to lack of participation.

So, I'm just wondering, here. WHY does this Competitions forum even exist? If it's just to bash anybody offering a chance for people to draw and compete against each other, oftentimes for SOME (although not worldly) compensation, can't they just be rude in the "No Art for Free" bitchfest in General Discussions? Why do they need to be in here???

Almost every attempt made to provide this specific forum with fresh content is met by the same rabid group of opressors, who not only discourage people from even making an effort to create something, participate in a group activity, and support this website, but do their damnedest to effectively run off people who come up with something to post in here. Between the two, it doesn't encourage competitions from any aspect, provider OR entrant.

While these are "Public" forums, I don't feel it conducive to the Competitions forum, nor GFX at large, to create a place to encourage participation, only to then let a small group of naysayers stifle the spirit of competition that the place was created for.

Let the whining about "spec" work stay in Discussions, and keep it out of Competitions.!
It does more to ruin the competitive spirit and hamper people's skill development, than it promotes fair market value for an artist's work.

If you do NOT like a competition that is posted in here, PM a moderator, or go whine about it in Discussions. Stop crapping on every encouragement to get people to draw, just because you think they should be paid vast amounts of money to do it.

~M

Re: Competitions are for Entering, NOT Insulting!
Wysiwyg \| 12/17/2007 @739 \| edit post

The pitchforks have been coming out in spades as of late, but there are some shady people out there looking for a free ride, but it seems it's been 'guilty until proven innocent' lately.

The latest thread...the Cloud9 site logo, was very upfront about what they expected to get and give in return. This type of honesty doesn't need to be met with such negativity. If you don't like it...then don't post. If you feel it is misleading, then by all means post a query with the thread author to elaborate on.

But it is ultimately the individual's choice, and some may not care about the money....and just want to create something to be used by someone else.

I see the point of those posting...I used to be right there in the middle of the lot, but honestly, no one is going to learn until they get their feet wet in the industry. And like I said, some may not care to do this for a living...if you yourself are good enough, you won't be affect too much by this as if you product is good enough, people will pay for it.

-----------------------------------------

The GFX competitions have dwindled the latter half this year, mostly due to lack of administrative support, and members who did step forward were getting burned out doing all the work (kittykat).

I'm actually working on about 3 new community driven comps that don't depend on Martin or Martijn, and will have more intrinsic rewards to help benefit the community and the artist themselves. In fact, I just locked in 2 judges this morning

Look for announcement just after the new year.

Re: Competitions are for Entering, NOT Insulting!
kittyKat \| 12/18/2007 @336 \| edit post

Madster I think you need some breathing exercises
try this one---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpGqQE1O1Zo
or this one---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFnocl-Obg0
or count to 10 in Spanish =) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aLR57mCBPM

Re: Competitions are for Entering, NOT Insulting!
BaronImpossible \| 12/18/2007 @627 \| edit post

I have a competition!

I'm redesiging my living room and instead of approaching this in a business-like manner I've decided to pretend it's some sort of "competition" in order to encourage the naive and terminally ignorant to provide work that would otherwise cost me hundreds. (Happily this appears to be a perfectly reasonable approach in the art world despite being totally unacceptable in every single other profession).

I'd like submissions from talented architects and designers only. I'm after detailed 3D plans, complete with the appropriate furniture suggestions and colour coordination. I'll email the brief to the entrants.

If I find a submission worthy of implementation I'll send the winner... er... oh, I don't know, a book or something, or whatever I can spare from my closet. Or maybe I'll give them a few Mb space on my personal server for 12 months (although I'll start charging for it promptly after that, mind!) Whatever, as long as it doesn't involve actual money and the benefit remains massively weighted in my favour.

And don't worry, if you're not successful you will still have gained much needed practice by participating. Of course you could have gained this experience on your own, or taken up a paying job with a client who understands business and isn't out to blow smoke up your ass, but hopefully you're too naive to understand the concept or too insecure to understand that your hard work is worthy of payment.

Email me on suckers-work-for-peanuts@freeloaders.com - I can't wait to see the new ways in which you artists will find to demean yourselves.

Re: Competitions are for Entering, NOT Insulting!
soulja \| 12/18/2007 @670 \| edit post

that's what i was talking about

there are 2 kinds of competitions: it's a difference, if somebody starts one, just to avoid spending money on a professional (think about it! it's a profession!) or if someone starts a competition without having a personal advantage out of it. because then, and only then, it's for learning, exchanging, motivating.

think about it..

Re: Competitions are for Entering, NOT Insulting!
Wysiwyg \| 12/19/2007 @074 \| edit post

But...

If someone starts a competition, and the only reward is recognition...and the 'contest' post author is upfront about it w/o attempting to deceive then let it be. Let the individuals choose. They see the deal up front, and if it's not worth their time, they'll move on and ignore it.

Besides, posting a rant about how much you hate it only bumps the thread, and gives it more attention

Re: Competitions are for Entering, NOT Insulting!
arenhaus \| 12/19/2007 @375 \| edit post

The Cloud9 "contest" was a request to do a job (corporate identity design) that usually costs $3000 - $25000 on the market, for a promise of free hosting.

They did not even search for a desperate or careless blighter to do it for free hosting, they expected people to do work for free and then if they liked one's results they'd maybe give him free hosting.

If posting a warning about speculative work next to such an offer is out of line, well, where is the line?

Arguments like "but there are people who can't afford it, it could be a saver for them" are poison, really. These people who can't afford cheap hosting will go on not being able to afford cheap hosting if they continue to agree to work for peanuts. If they were properly paid for a project like this, then they'd be able to buy hosting from the company of their choice, and have a great surplus left. If they accept work on such terms, they get paid next to nothing, still aren't able to afford hosting (they are locked in and at mercy of the particular provider whom they can't leave without paying to someone else), and have undermined the marketplace by rewarding freebie seekers - essentially helping to ensure that their future contracts will be more like this and less like fair compensation. This is exploitation of the desperate and driving professionals to desperation.

[Message edited on 12/19 @383]

Re: Competitions are for Entering, NOT Insulting!
BaronImpossible \| 12/19/2007 @572 \| edit post

_quote:
Wysiwyg wrote on 12/19 @074
If someone starts a competition, and the only reward is recognition...and the 'contest' post author is upfront about it w/o attempting to deceive then let it be. Let the individuals choose. They see the deal up front, and if it's not worth their time, they'll move on and ignore it.

But there is deception when people attempt to advance their business by relabeling their requests for free work as "competitions". A competition, to be worthy of the name, should be ~

a) dedicated to challenging, educating and promoting the artists, not just a way for some slick freeloader to get freebies for their business. ALL artists should benefit by working through a competition, not just the winner (although, as we've seen, even the winner doesn't benefit in most cases)
b) properly managed and organised (not just "email your entries and some office clerk may check them out" )
c) assessed by independent, unbiased, experienced and, ideally, influential judges who base their decision on artistic merit (not someone with zero artistic talent whose only interest is maximising their business profits at the expense of others)

It seems pointless for this site to ban people from advertising commercial jobs asking for free work when they can get round it simply by posting in Competitions instead of in Jobs.

"Business needs free artwork for brochure (job)" - Nope, not allowed, forum post deleted.

"Business needs free artwork for brochure (competition)" - Sure, that's fine!

It's OK to say "Let the individuals choose" but their choices must necessarily be informed choices, and the information they're being told is quite simply wrong. More and more new artists are being given the message that they must work for nothing when they're starting out because that's just the way it is. This is a LIE, a lie perpetrated by freeloaders and also - in no small part - by other beginner artists who just parrot what they hear.

OK, there are rare occasions when you may produce a piece for free when the exposure justifies it (e.g. artwork for top quality, professional publications that have large distributions and are dedicated to promoting the artist) but 99.999% of the offers do not meet this criterion.

At the end of the day, working for peanuts to line others' pockets is an individuals's choice, but let's be clear, the activity is totally inappropriate, demeaning, self-deceiving, ignorant behaviour that is damaging not only to the person doing it but also to those artists who actually value what they produce.

[Message edited on 12/19 @574]

Re: Competitions are for Entering, NOT Insulting!
emarts \| 12/19/2007 @708 \| edit post

It is completely acceptable for a company to sponsor a competition in order to promote itself. No corporation would do it if they didn't get anything out of it. Look at all the viral videos coming out now that are promoted by large corporations who pay little to those who create them.

There is a notion (and I don't know where it came from) that artists are willing to do work for free or for very little. The sad part is that this notion is held by many artists. There seems to be a perception that exposure is worth more than getting paid. What they don't realize is that by getting paid, an artist can afford and control his own exposure. Once you have the reputation of being the cheap (or free) guy, you will have a hard time getting out from under it.

If you want to enter a contest -- because it IS good to be an award-winning artist -- look carefully at who's sponsoring it. Can you really get a benefit from it that outweighs getting paid for it? If you enter a contest where the likelihood of winning is low, then the payout ought to be worth more than the effort put into it. Plus the entrants should at the very least get some exposure too. The sponsor should overpay with his prize offer because he will get much more out of the contest than anyone entering it.

Competitions are a form of marketing. They should not be just a way to get free work.

[Message edited on 12/19 @709]

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