Drawing Catagory Redefinition - GFXartist.com - Served over 20,000,000 artworks

Back to forum overview

Back to topics

1 2

Drawing Catagory Redefinition
Wysiwyg \| 03/24/2008 @737 \| edit post

Alrighty guys....let's get this started.

There will be a thread for photomanip and design later..For now we are going to gather input from the members in regards to redefining the Drawing catagory.

To help steer this a little bit, a few guidelines as to what should be talked about.

AS WE DO NOT HAVE PROGRAMMER SUPPORT...the following CAN NOT happen.

There will be no renaming of categories
There will be no inventing of categories
There will be no deleting of categories
There will be no new subcategories

Vector (pen tool work) artwork should be a factor of discussion
Traditional media should be a factor of discussion

---------------------------

OK, with that out of the way, here is the current definition:

Drawing

A category for line art, illustrations, comic art and such. In contrary to paintings these works show the line art, even though they might be colored, shaded or even textured. Think of works that would traditionally be created using pens and pencils.

------------------------

Do your best to help shape your community. I could be an ass and have just the mod/admin team do it, but I want GFX to truly be a site for and by the members.

We don't need 2 paragraphs to describe a category....do your best to be as specific to avoid any subjectivity.

I look forward to your responses.

Re: Drawing Catagory Redefinition
kittyKat \| 03/24/2008 @747 \| edit post

* There will be no renaming of categories
* There will be no inventing of categories
* There will be no deleting of categories
* There will be no new subcategories

ok........ it sounds like you really cant do much so whats the point of this thread?
or do you mean rewriting the fact page for this..
and about vectors they have always been placed in drawing or painting or design depending on their style
if anything there should be a NEW category for vector/vexel/ art work
but like you said no new stuff..
just rewriting things..
im a tad disappointed. it would be nice if the admin/coders could just add a little tweaks here and there.

Re: Drawing Catagory Redefinition
Wysiwyg \| 03/24/2008 @750 \| edit post

_quote:
kittyKat wrote on 03/24 @747
* There will be no renaming of categories
* There will be no inventing of categories
* There will be no deleting of categories
* There will be no new subcategories

ok........ it sounds like you really cant do much so whats the point of this thread?
or do you mean rewriting the fact page for this..
and about vectors they have always been placed in drawing or painting or design depending on their style
if anything there should be a NEW category for vector/vexel/ art work
but like you said no new stuff..
just rewriting things..
im a tad disappointed. it would be nice if the admin/coders could just add a little tweaks here and there.

Pam, nothing has changed...the whole point of this is that there are tweaks that can be made to help this site out w/o the need of Martijn or Arno.

Not even Martin has the knowledge or ability to make the changes that I said aren't going to happen.

Add little tweaks? You (nor I) possibly know what is considered 'little'. I know what is not though....getting programmer support.

Let's make the best with what we got, that is the point of this.

[Message edited on 03/24 @766]

Re: Drawing Catagory Redefinition
pyrokid \| 03/24/2008 @852 \| edit post

How about restricting drawing to line art and no paintings becuase I think drawing is just an starting point for an manner of mediums so a painting could've started as an drawing but once you add the paint to it, it should'nt be referred to as a drawing .

Re: Drawing Catagory Redefinition
Daykan \| 03/24/2008 @939 \| edit post

Brett, you know that i told, you´ve my support. If i can help... Yeah, i´m off this days, like all of you know, i was sick, but i´m trying to get back. And i´m here.

Re: Drawing Catagory Redefinition
Phryneas \| 03/24/2008 @960 \| edit post

mh, I may have been inactive for a while so I don't really know what this all is about - but if you need someone with programming skills, I'll sure help, I I should have more than enough knowledge to read into the system and tell you what to change

Re: Drawing Catagory Redefinition
Gods-Mistake \| 03/24/2008 @967 \| edit post

Now that sounds interesting. Aww, community spirit!
Maybe there are more free coders around that could help evolve this baby!

Would that be a possibility, Brett?

Re: Drawing Catagory Redefinition
SandraS \| 03/24/2008 @980 \| edit post

_quote:
Wysiwyg wrote on 03/24 @737
AS WE DO NOT HAVE PROGRAMMER SUPPORT...the follow CAN NOT happen.

There will be no renaming of categories
There will be no inventing of categories
There will be no deleting of categories
There will be no new subcategories

Just an idea: There is a lot of programmers here at gfx. They can help, not necessarily for the big stuff, but for minor stuff. The return of the favour can be a gfx member plus account.

I'm a bit dissapointed about subcatagories... I really wanted a mixed media subcatagory, and even a paintover subcatagory.

But oh well, I know you're doing what you can, and you're doing well.

The current definition of drawing sounds pretty clear to me. But I liked what Arne said in a previous topic:

_quote:
ARTOONATOR wrote on 03/15 @959
Painting stands for plastering, covering. Drawing stands for shorter, thinner movements, that can nevertheless build and cover in layers.
Often, painting comes from the entire arm, where drawing comes from the wrist and hand.

tectorius -a -um

lineamentum -i n

[Message edited on 03/24 @980]

Re: Drawing Catagory Redefinition
Wysiwyg \| 03/25/2008 @020 \| edit post

OMG....this is going so far off track it's not funny.

I'm the first guy outside the community founders (and I think first American) to be made an admin. The site has been around for over 6 years.....if it took them that long to entrust an outsider, do you really think they are going to offer up the source code and resources? Sorry but it's been offered several times (and rejected by them) in the past.

--------------------

All the no no no no's......that's not my choice...that's the reality. I would LOVE to restructure all the stuff I listed above, but I can't...Martin can't. Not anytime soon w/o the help of Arno and Martijn.

---------------------

CAN WE PLEASE just stick with what we have to work with? I'm already starting to regret doing this. I want the members to feel they have a voice, but so far I've had barely any feedback on the actually topic of this thread!

Giving you guys the ability to help shape this site is my small way of trying to make the community more active.....and now all I'm getting complaints about what I can't do, instead of focusing on what CAN be done to make this place more efficient.

I'm not blind to what needs to change....for the last time...I've been here awhile and I know the vote system needs a revamp...I know the elite system is screwy...and I know the category names is outdated...but we can't change that...I already listed above how intricate a procedure like that is.
*sigh*

If this trend continues I'll just leave it to the mod team to redefine manip and design as this so far this open discussion isn't showing much promise.

Re: Drawing Catagory Redefinition
Gods-Mistake \| 03/25/2008 @048 \| edit post

Chill, Brett.
It's not that bad.

I didn't know they already refused outsiders to reprogram certain stuff.

_quote:
SandraS wrote on 03/24 @980
The current definition of drawing sounds pretty clear to me. But I liked what Arne said in a previous topic:

True, that sounded clear.
Even though I've seen several Gnomon Tutorials that speak against the wrist/hand-part. But that's so minor, it really doesn't matter.
I'm still puzzled a bit with my ink though, but I'll just upload in the category that outweights in the picture. More plastering goes to painting, more drawn lines goes to drawing.

Re: Drawing Catagory Redefinition
Phryneas \| 03/25/2008 @090 \| edit post

oops, sorry *g* I haven't much to say on this topic itself, just wanted to offer help - I didn't know what politics Arno and Martijn have taken the last years

Re: Drawing Catagory Redefinition
SandraS \| 03/25/2008 @090 \| edit post

Calm down Brett.

We are just trying to help. How could we know the gfx team didn't want outsiders?

Re: Drawing Catagory Redefinition
Raphael \| 03/25/2008 @091 \| edit post

I'd go for; If it's 'traditional', then by Medium (Pencils, Inking, Pastels, Charcoal etc). If it's digital make it Vector = Drawing, Raster = Painting. That way it's simple and can't be confused, except by Mixed Media, which is always going to be trouble.

Re: Drawing Catagory Redefinition
SandraS \| 03/25/2008 @111 \| edit post

I agree Raphael.
The confusion comes when one start to color the sketches and linearts. Once I had a watercolor drawing that I wanted to post but I never did. I couldn't figure out if I was supposed to post it under drawing or under painting. Today I would prolly post it under drawings, because I was mostly filling in colors between the lines and the sketch was visible. Even though the background was painted with watercolors, the main subjects was built up by a drawing.
So.. in my oppinion, watercolored sketches = drawing catagory.

Re: Drawing Catagory Redefinition
Gods-Mistake \| 03/25/2008 @146 \| edit post

_quote:
SandraS wrote on 03/25 @111
watercolored sketches = drawing catagory.

Hmm... ok, I'm not sure, if I picture it right in my head.
May I take a look at it (the picture you spoke of)?
So as far as I get it, we decide where to put our pieces, depending on the style that defines the picture, right?
So if I have a drawing and I just "fill" the space between the lines, it's still defined by the linework and should be a concidered a (colored) drawing. Did I get that correct?
Yes, that would make sense and clear my ink-confusion...

[Message edited on 03/25 @205]

Re: Drawing Catagory Redefinition
Manifestant \| 03/25/2008 @152 \| edit post

_quote:
Wysiwyg wrote on 03/24 @737
OK, with that out of the way, here is the current definition:

Drawing

A category for line art, illustrations, comic art and such. In contrary to paintings these works show the line art, even though they might be colored, shaded or even textured. Think of works that would traditionally be created using pens and pencils.

I understand your agitation.

This is going to be a tough call to redefine the category, but I'll put in 2 cents.
################################
Finished pieces which utilize the following methods:

-Graphite/Pencils/Charcoal/Pastel
-Pen/Ink
-Mixed Media, using the above as the foremost medium, along with paint (such as a wash or coloring) or combination of the above mentioned
-Digital Vector Program (Adobe Illustrator, CorelDRAW, etc---vector-based)

Pieces created using primarily digital brushes (Adobe Photoshop, Corel Painter, etc---raster-based) should be placed in Painting or Design Category.
################################

"Paint or Design Category".... I know these two have yet to be put up for discussion, but I thought I would still note it.

[Message edited on 03/25 @155]

Re: Drawing Catagory Redefinition
Wysiwyg \| 03/25/2008 @169 \| edit post

keep the input coming people...this is good stuff.

My earlier 'rant' was just the summation of some of the complaints I'm seeing on this thread, the poll, the news item...it adds up.

There is so much we can do that will help refine this site, I want to make it possible, but moreso get the community 'active' as it's said by letting their voices be heard. The whole 'give em an inch...want a mile' mentality is something I think this community is above.

Re: Drawing Catagory Redefinition
Gods-Mistake \| 03/25/2008 @185 \| edit post

_quote:
Wysiwyg wrote on 03/25 @169
the news item...it adds up.

The news item? I don't see anyone complaining there.
If you mean me: It was meant as a joke and the

indicated to me that you got it.
Ok, it wasn't a good one, but hey... I tried.

Believe me, Brett, when I assure you that we stand 100% behind you and just make suggestions. Maybe they are a bit dreamy sometimes (that's how we are) and cannot be realized, but if you just say: "No can do." we will accept it and think of another way (as the creative bunch we are

Re: Drawing Catagory Redefinition
SandraS \| 03/25/2008 @223 \| edit post

_quote:
Gods-Mistake wrote on 03/25 @146
Hmm... ok, I'm not sure, if I picture it right in my head.
May I take a look at it?
So as far as I get it, we decide where to put our pieces, depending on the style that defines the picture, right?
So if I have a drawing and I just "fill" the space between the lines, it's still defined by the linework and should be a concidered a (colored) drawing. Did I get that correct?
Yes, that would make sense and clear my ink-confusion...

Well yes, that's my oppinion on it... I don't have the drawing on my current computer, but I did find something almost similar. It's very old though!

http://www.sandrasteffensen.com/gfx/oldie.jpg
In my eyes, this mostly consist of linework that I did with a black felt pen, and I used watercolors to give it color and shades.
Watercolors are very thin and will in most cases reveal the sketch and linework that is beneath it.
I think painting is more about brushstrokes and colors that blend together and plaster eachothers. The linework or sketch should be minimal.

Here's some better examples of colored drawings:
Little Dragon by

ARZILLIER66
Violino by

PaleMajesty
Mae n' Bao by

Manamaraya

Re: Drawing Catagory Redefinition
Wysiwyg \| 03/25/2008 @228 \| edit post

no no GM the comment wasn't direct towards you. No worries.

Re: Drawing Catagory Redefinition
Wysiwyg \| 03/25/2008 @229 \| edit post

_quote:
SandraS wrote on 03/25 @223

Watercolors are very thin and will in most cases reveal the sketch and linework that is beneath it.
I think painting is more about brushstrokes and colors that blend together and plaster eachothers. The linework or sketch should be minimal.

Here's some better examples of colored drawings:
Little Dragon by ARZILLIER66
Violino by PaleMajesty
Mae n' Bao by Manamaraya

Howabout: If the majority of the work was done by brush (watercolor) than it's painting. The sketch just gave you a base coat to work on. It's the end result as well as the process maybe? The main source of the creation?

Re: Drawing Catagory Redefinition
Raphael \| 03/25/2008 @415 \| edit post

I think the difference between "Coloured Drawing" and "Paint over initial sketch" is actually fairly straight forward, the emphasis is always on the lines.

My Idea was mainly to separate off the definition as it applies to Digital work as that is technically neither 'Drawing' or 'Painting' other than in the distinction of 'Paths' and 'Pixels'.

This is shaping up well

Re: Drawing Catagory Redefinition
bstsk \| 03/25/2008 @449 \| edit post

Truth be told, I really don´t know what to do about vector work. First time I posted one I had to ask, and wysiwig told me to post it as drawing (thanks). Yet I think it should be a category for itself, since Vector artwork gives the same importance to line than a drawing, and it has the same planning in color than a painting. Even more, being intrinsecally "simple", and relying so much in composition, it could also be posted as design. Soooo.... I don´t think vector work will ever get much exposition until it has it´s own category

.

Another thing... how can a carefully rendered, with shadows, nice contrast, and lots of attention to shading be considered drawing? (even if it´s done in pencils, charcoal, pastels, etc)

Re: Drawing Catagory Redefinition
jerrembear \| 03/25/2008 @663 \| edit post

Another thing... how can a carefully rendered, with shadows, nice contrast, and lots of attention to shading be considered drawing? (even if it´s done in pencils, charcoal, pastels, etc)

so you're saying we should called photorealistic drawings photographs instead?

Re: Drawing Catagory Redefinition
bstsk \| 03/25/2008 @676 \| edit post

Not a photograph, but what´s the difference with a painting?

Re: Drawing Catagory Redefinition
pyrokid \| 03/25/2008 @697 \| edit post

I think this is the best way to put it.

Drawing is a visual art which makes use of any number of drawing instruments to mark a two-dimensional medium. Common instruments include graphite pencils, pen and ink, inked brushes, wax color pencils, crayons, charcoals, chalk, pastels, markers, stylus, or various metals like silverpoint. An artist who practices or works in drawing may be referred to as a draftsman or draughtsman.

A small amount of material is released onto the two dimensional medium which leaves a visible mark - the process is similar to that of painting. The most common support for drawing is paper, although other materials such as cardboard, plastic, leather, canvas and board, may be used. Temporary drawings may be made on a blackboard or whiteboard, or indeed almost anything. The medium has also become popular as a means of public expression via graffiti art, because of the easy availability of permanent markers.

Thats from wikipedia. To put this in an way we digital artists can refer to heres my refined version.

Drawing is an vsual art which makes use of any number of drawing intruments to mark a two-dimensional medium. Common tools include(heres the tricky bit)

Painter.
Pencils in the pencils category includes coloured aslong as LINE is visible.
Graphite-if it exists in painter.

Vector
Pen tool
pencil tool

Photoshop
Any brush aslong as it read LINE.
colour restricted within the line and flat or vectory

The line has to visible and make a mark, it can include these.

Cross hatching
Colour
texture
texture from the canvas

I think thats about all, feel free to add to this. Actually please add to this

Topic closed

1 2

Read the Terms of use and Privacy Statement.
This site is a property of Brothers in art For more information and support, contact .

Web GFXartist.com