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Comments and nice-ism
Mork \| 03/25/2008 @694 \| edit post

I figured I've done a less than good job so far in giving comments back for what I've received. So I've clicked around and wondered if I only should comment on what I like - or everywhere I had an opinion. Obviously the poor and mediocre works far outnumber what one would consider 'good', and I've usually just shut the window down if I didn't like it. But then I notice that just about every image in here are receiving praise, and even in the worst images there comes the usual comment about pretty colors..

So, will I only make enemies here if I comment honestly, or is honest critiques appreciated here? I just commented on two pictures, only to realize the second after that these were the top two pictures in Photography.. Oh my..

Strange about the voting system, If I give a +1 I will only push it forward won't I?

Re: Comments and nice-ism
liiga \| 03/25/2008 @699 \| edit post

Well if you phrase your comment in a constructive manner, there should really be no reason for negative feedback unless the person doesn't know how to take a crit, in which case it's their loss, imo. I'm not a very avid commenter myself, but if there's something that I feel I could give constructive suggestions on, I do my best to do it in a polite manner. Haven't had any complaints so far. ;/

Re: Comments and nice-ism
pyrokid \| 03/25/2008 @702 \| edit post

well it's like telling a girl shes ugly with out offending her. Take it softly break it to her gently.

[Message edited on 03/25 @707]

Re: Comments and nice-ism
Byonder \| 03/25/2008 @707 \| edit post

_quote:
Mork wrote on 03/25 @694
Strange about the voting system, If I give a +1 I will only push it forward won't I?

We used to have the option of a -1 vote. But people complained about it so much it got removed. Now they're doing the same thing about the +0 vote. Wait another 5 years and all that'll be left is the +10 vote

Re: Comments and nice-ism
pyrokid \| 03/25/2008 @708 \| edit post

theres a song about stuff like that can't remember what it's called though this is the defining line.

When a leader speakes that leader dies.

pretty much what happens everywhere.

Re: Comments and nice-ism
pyrokid \| 03/25/2008 @709 \| edit post

staying on topic - you could mask it up and leave it to them to figure out what you said later.

Re: Comments and nice-ism
Mork \| 03/25/2008 @712 \| edit post

Photosig.com has a voting system of -3 to +3, with -3 reserved for really really offensive(illegal) pictures. Perhaps the only website I know which appears to have improved with the years. One of the few places I actually get negative comments.

Re: Comments and nice-ism
Byonder \| 03/25/2008 @713 \| edit post

_quote:
pyrokid wrote on 03/25 @702
well it's like telling a girl shes ugly with out offending her.

Why would you want to do that? It just sounds like a pretty bad idea in general. And doing it without offending her is completely impossible. Telling someone they make ugly art is one thing, telling them they're an ugly person... totally different story. Should really be avoided at all costs...

Re: Comments and nice-ism
Raphael \| 03/25/2008 @714 \| edit post

Mork, I'd suggest you comment on any image that you think you could impart constructive advice to the artist.

Don't comment on all images just because you looked at them. By all means tell someone you think their work is "great".

If you don't like their work but can't say how you would improve it, say nothing.

Above all: "Don't bring me problems, bring me solutions." Don't point out a flaw unless you can say how to correct it.

"Dude, nice idea but your perspective stinks."

"Dude, it's good, but you need to move the main character closer to the horizon line and shrink it a touch to get the perspective right"

Deal with this with the same tact you'd answer "Does my butt look big in this?"

(Having said that my generic answer to that one is "Compared to what?" so maybe you should be more tactful than that.)

[Message edited on 03/25 @714]

Re: Comments and nice-ism
Mork \| 03/25/2008 @725 \| edit post

_quote:
Raphael wrote on 03/25 @714
By all means tell someone you think their work is "great".

If you don't like their work but can't say how you would improve it, say nothing.

I disagree. If it is ok to say "I like it" without expounding on it, then it must also be fine to say "I don't like it" and leave it at that. I admit that both these comments are worth very little on their own, it is much better with a longer comment, but both are better than nothing.

I'd very much encourage people to say that my picture sucks if they felt so, even if they couldn't explain how or why. My reason for starting this thread was a perceived lack of balance between positive and negative comments.

Re: Comments and nice-ism
pyrokid \| 03/25/2008 @742 \| edit post

Well I think aslong as you justify your view you can't go wrong, I don't like your painting BECAUSE the perspective is dizzying or I like your painting BECAUSE the compostition is great. along those line.

Re: Comments and nice-ism
pyrokid \| 03/25/2008 @747 \| edit post

_quote:
Byonder wrote on 03/25 @713
[...]

Why would you want to do that? It just sounds like a pretty bad idea in general. And doing it without offending her is completely impossible. Telling someone they make ugly art is one thing, telling them they're an ugly person... totally different story. Should really be avoided at all costs...

Hence the word ITS LIKE. But no I wouldn't do that anyway. It' just an comparison, you wouldn't want to do it really because it has no justification.

[Message edited on 03/25 @748]

Re: Comments and nice-ism
Gods-Mistake \| 03/25/2008 @776 \| edit post

You HELP people with constructive negative comments, so what's the shyness all about?
If someone can't take it, he/she should leave to DeviantArt. That's where you get the happy flowers.
I'm here to learn.
That's what makes the quality of this site. Constructive comments.
That's the main reason I hang around.

Re: Comments and nice-ism
pyrokid \| 03/25/2008 @780 \| edit post

well said, ditto.

Re: Comments and nice-ism
Byonder \| 03/25/2008 @786 \| edit post

I have to say, your comment (yes, it was a comment -- not a critique) on Vintage by

purplerose was absurd. Toning is pretentious? So doing any kind of toning whatsoever, will automatically jettison a photograph into pretension simply because you say so?

If you're going to whine about people not being able to take critiques, at least leave something legitimate. Your opinion offered no suggestions, and was therefore just as useless as "wow awsum +11!!"

[Message edited on 03/25 @790]

Re: Comments and nice-ism
purplerose \| 03/25/2008 @790 \| edit post

If you're gonna pick out photos or "call us out", just name us dude.

No need to walk around in the shadows...

Critiques are only done well when you do not come off as a jerk. Point blank. It especially helps when you give a tip on what can be improved.

_quote:
Byonder wrote on 03/25 @786
I have to say, your comment (yes, it was a comment -- not a critique) on Vintage by purplerose was absurd. Toning is pretentious? So doing any kind of toning whatsoever, will automatically jettison a photograph into pretension?

If you're going to whine about people not being able to take critiques, at least leave something legitimate.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[Message edited on 03/25 @792]

Re: Comments and nice-ism
Mork \| 03/25/2008 @820 \| edit post

_quote:
Byonder wrote on 03/25 @786
I have to say, your comment (yes, it was a comment -- not a critique) on Vintage by purplerose was absurd. Toning is pretentious? So doing any kind of toning whatsoever, will automatically jettison a photograph into pretension simply because you say so?

If you're going to whine about people not being able to take critiques, at least leave something legitimate. Your opinion offered no suggestions, and was therefore just as useless as "wow awsum +11!!"

Where did I whine about people not being able to take critiques??
and quote: "simply because you say so"
Where did I say that my opinion is LAW??
I have not said anywhere that these comments I made were the golden standard of critiques.
Please read before you type, seriously..

[Message edited on 03/25 @821]

Re: Comments and nice-ism
Mork \| 03/25/2008 @826 \| edit post

_quote:
purplerose wrote on 03/25 @790
If you're gonna pick out photos or "call us out", just name us dude. No need to walk around in the shadows...

Critiques are only done well when you do not come off as a jerk. Point blank. It especially helps when you give a tip on what can be improved.

I don't feel the need to name or call out anyone. I don't take much notice of names so I didn't know you as purplerose before now. :/

Re: Comments and nice-ism
Byonder \| 03/25/2008 @839 \| edit post

_quote:
Mork wrote on 03/25 @694
So, will I only make enemies here if I comment honestly, or is honest critiques appreciated here?

Don't try to play semantics.

You're questioning here whether or not people will react violently to honest critiques. I am saying that based on your comment on

purplerose's piece (which you referenced, so I use that as an example), you're not really interested in giving honest critiques so much as just bashing on things you don't like.

I have no problem with harsh critiques, and have given out my fair share, as anyone here can tell you. And some people do react badly to them.

At least make sure you're leaving actual critiques and not just overblown versions of "this sux."

_quote:
Mork wrote on 03/25 @725
My reason for starting this thread was a perceived lack of balance between positive and negative comments.

We don't need a balance of positive and negative comments. What we need is a balance of useful and useless comments. Mind-numbingly positive comments as well as unhelpful negative comments are both useless.

[Message edited on 03/25 @849]

Re: Comments and nice-ism
Mork \| 03/25/2008 @858 \| edit post

_quote:
Byonder wrote on 03/25 @839
you're not really interested in giving honest critiques so much as just bashing on things you don't like.

Yes, I really have no life. Nothing more important to do than making people feel bad on the internet.

_quote:
Byonder wrote on 03/25 @839
We don't need a balance of positive and negative comments. What we need is a balance of useful and useless comments. Mind-numbingly positive comments as well as unhelpful negative comments are both useless.

Can I reserve the right to think it useful to know wether someone likes or does not like my image? Even if it is more useful to know why..

[Message edited on 03/25 @860]

Re: Comments and nice-ism
Wysiwyg \| 03/25/2008 @869 \| edit post

A click of people don't like purplerose...those same people don't like byonder, they are both blunt people who say what they feel..but I can't deny the fact they do use apply technical aspects of their craft to their crit. Hardly just a 'that sux' type of comment. You can hate them..but you have to at least appreciate that.

I'm the same way (back when I did a lot of critiquing)...but for some reason people seem to still like me

Those people that don't like those mentioned above are the ones I hardly crit b/c I see why they are here...they just want to share the joy of their creation. Helpful hints are welcomed, but harsh crits that really break a work down in every aspect assumes they are trying to be some pro photographer/painter etc whatever. Which is clearly what they don't want to be judged as. So they will take it badly.

The biggest problem with the member base is it's greatest strength. It's diversity. Both hobbyists and pro dwell here, and you basically have to pick your battles.

*here's where I piss off someone...sorry, I don't hide names.

I used to get into it with Beatriz about her work not evolving. Constantly offering crits and then getting fustrated when ignored. I did my best to share ideas about the principles of layout and color theory to help her 'improve' her work.

I came to realize she just wants to create...not to concerned about what people think, just putting her heart into her work. I can't fault an artist for that. So now I put that energy towards other artists with a different goal in mind.

------------

Pick your battles, and put your energy into those seeking such advice. Give the wows! to those who want that.

Re: Comments and nice-ism
Raphael \| 03/25/2008 @878 \| edit post

***WYSIWIG and I posted Simultaneously***

OK, now we stop this exercise.

The reaction you have received in this thread Mork, is a SMALL, prime example of how negative comments without suggestions of how to improve, will be received in people's galleries. Most people are here to learn and yes, ego buffing is annoying at times, but making people feel bad about their art, regardless of how much you don't like it will not be tolerated, we aim to teach NOT put people off learning.

Art is subjective, if you cannot find something that you can offer improvement on, don't say anything because at that point it is merely your OPINION, which is only going to be shared by a maximum of a third of people visiting the piece.

Think about this, don't be arguing for the sake of it and go teach people constructively. I look forward to seeing your insights on how people can improve because quite frankly not enough people do around here and we'd like to get back to what this site was set up for. Sharing and learning.

[Message edited on 03/25 @880]

Re: Comments and nice-ism
bstsk \| 03/25/2008 @885 \| edit post

When I atended art school, all sorts of crap would come out, and no one would say it, it would allways be justified by some sort of illuminated idea, concept, or whatever. Thing is, in art everything can be looked in a lighter tone, and nothing can be absolutely wrong.
That said, I think here things are more about technique, and nobody is pretending to change other´s understanding of anything. So yes, things here CAN be absolutely wrong, and it should be said. There´s no need to say it in an offensive way. You don´t have to say the ugly girl she´s ugly... unless she´s going to a beauty contest. And that´s what we´re doing here, we´re holding a contest with ourselves, with everybody else as our judges/teachers.
I simply don´t vote when I don´t like an image, or when I simply don´t know how to start commenting, but usually I try to find something wrong. If I don´t then I say so. That´s how I´d like my images to be commented.
Yet I wonder if I shouldn´t at least vote on every image I look, maybe that would encourage some more carefull uploading...

Re: Comments and nice-ism
Almost-Human \| 03/26/2008 @040 \| edit post

Im afraid to say things !

Re: Comments and nice-ism
Juro \| 03/26/2008 @058 \| edit post

_quote:
liiga wrote on 03/25 @699
Well if you phrase your comment in a constructive manner, there should really be no reason for negative feedback unless the person doesn't know how to take a crit, in which case it's their loss, imo. I'm not a very avid commenter myself, but if there's something that I feel I could give constructive suggestions on, I do my best to do it in a polite manner. Haven't had any complaints so far. ;/

I critiqued one of your works once in a positive and negative and most of all polite and friendly way and you bit my head off with a sarcastic comment!

Didn't bother anymore after that.

Re: Comments and nice-ism
ThruMyEyez \| 03/26/2008 @059 \| edit post

I like your comment Brian!! I might improve the punctuation by adding an apostrophe in "I'm", and leaving out the space between the end of the sentence and the exclamation point. Learn your grammar you big ape!!!!!!
Hope that wasn't too harsh!!

+10

[Message edited on 03/26 @063]

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