Job post guidelines
Martin | 09/02/2003 @023 | edit post

Want to get a shot at having one of our members or visitors work on your project? Read these guidelines. Whether it's a paid or unpaid job, take the professional approach. What you say in your post will be used to determine your integrity, so make sure you provide enough information. 1. Mark your post [PAID], [COMPENSATED] or [UNPAID] in its title. 2. IMPORTANT: Unpaid jobs for commercial projects are not allowed. If you can't pay a reasonable wage, don't post the job here because the members will eat you alive. 3. Don't even think about dropping a short 'I need you for project x mail me' post. We don't like spam. 4. Be clear about what you need. 5. Provide background information about the job and/or the company, we want to know what we're getting ourselves into. 6. Don't make non-profit/hobby projects look like the real thing, it will not work in your advantage. 7. State clearly what the financial prospects are, if there are any. 8. Providing a (project) website or any documents related to the job is a huge plus. 9. Basic contact information (contact person, email address/phone number) is a must. Don't take these rules lightly, you'll notice that the GFXartist public has high standards. Thanks, Martin Community Mananger

Re: Job post guidelines
Goldenavatar | 02/10/2004 @680 | edit post

I've looked around this section of the forum numerous times and I'm a bit disappointed that it's treated like a newspaper classified section then as a place to post up serious job opportunities. Often times the individual making the posting has a vague sparcely informative posting that's devoid of alot of critical information such as the specifics such as, location of work, rate of pay, deadline for applicants; when they're expecting to decide who's got a job, contact information, ie, phone number, fax number, email and mailing addresses. The people posting are quick to tell us what they want, but they fail to tell us what we need to know and often times they say, "sorry, we're really busy," as their plaster over the crack response. But in this day and age of rapid communications, like email, free forum posts, instant messaging, faxes, and others, the excuse doesn't hold much if the person wants to be seen as a legitimate job poster, or recruiter. Just my 2 Cents.

Re: Job post guidelines
Martin | 02/10/2004 @726 | edit post

Exactly, unfortunately. People don't tend to read threads like these before posting a job. Only heavy moderating would do some good, unfortunately that's not something I can add to my huge list right now.

Re: Job post guidelines
Hybridos | 02/10/2004 @885 | edit post

Maybe you can use some users of the forum to be moderators, im sure there sould be some that can do it

Re: Job post guidelines
Goldenavatar | 02/12/2004 @765 | edit post

Volunteer mods for this section sound like a good idea, for the short term. But I think there should be a seperate registration set aside strictly for potential employers to register through. You can make sure that they're able to receive information illustrating what their posts should have in them and what failures would give you grounds to either delete or remove them. At least for long term continued use of this section of the forum. If not, then just have a mod who zips in and can refer posts to outlets where they could get some more effective coverage, like ConceptArt.org's Non-Paying Project's forum and DeviantArt.com's Projects forum. [Message edited on 11/08 @188]

Re: Job post guidelines
Fluke | 04/20/2004 @863 | edit post

Just testing something...

Re: Job post guidelines
hopelessfaith | 07/13/2004 @780 | edit post

Someone made a suggest in one of the job postings which I think is a good Idea. We need a section for non-paying jobs so artist know what they are getting into. A lot of companies are trying to, for lack of a better term "freeload" and get difficult or time consuming work for free. I understand if they are really not making any money off of it but some do. I hate deviant art for that exact reason where you get companies who will be making a profit, asking for free art, or logos done. I don't know if you guys will even want to make a section for it or give the companies an advisor on posting difficult work or work that they will be making a profit as a non paying post. It just tiring me out. It is irritating when they say "we don't have much money", when I in the same boat but I still have to pay for supplies to do work that I am not getting compensated for. Maybe I am just jaded from not having paying work for some time (2.5 months to be exact) So if you think my post is stupid, just let me know and I will shut up. But I still think there should be something done about job postings that are non paying. Keep up the good work, from Your Little yammering trouble maker, Hopelessfaith [Message edited on 07/13 @785]

Re: Job post guidelines
gpetersz | 09/28/2004 @360 | edit post

I agree with hopelessfaith. I would happily volunteer to get rid of these UNPAID posts. If there would be a section for "Projects" or something like that these could go there. It's quite hopeless while digging through the piles of "UNPAID" topics.

Re: Job post guidelines
Martin | 09/28/2004 @363 | edit post

Yeah, well for now I think the prefixed make it easier. I'll make sure people tag their posts, if they do that another forum is a bit over the top.

Re: Job post guidelines
Hybridos | 09/29/2004 @589 | edit post

Now the Jobs secction is way more better you know when you at least can get some compensation for your work before getting into the post. Im tired of going into "Masive Multiplayer Online RPG" and you get there and you realice that you will revice none payment for your work. Forgot to say, thouse UNPAID are going nowhere, i hope nobody answer them so they will know thats not the way of getting some artist to work for you. [Message edited on 09/29 @592]

Re: Job post guidelines
Goldenavatar | 01/09/2005 @477 | edit post

The tag's of "Unpaid" or "Paid" don't seem to be helping the situation in the least a year or so later. On the contrary, given what I can see, it only seems to make it easier for folks to chew a person out for expecting free work to be done by professional/semi-professional artists. And to make matters worse, there are still posters that are not detailing what we need to know to better see them as legitimate job posters. I'm a bit disappointed that what I said way back early last year in suggesting the seperate sections for Non-paying jobs, and maybe a seperate registration strictly for potential employers still looks like the better way to deal with the standing problem, because what we've got going now isn't doing much to help.

Re: Job post guidelines
CityRose | 01/09/2005 @507 | edit post

I actually feel a little sorry for these people who come here asking for free work. Yes, we've seen this a dozen times, and we've all said that we don't like to accept unpaid jobs, but they don't have that history. They come here completely oblivious to all the other UNPAID topics. Every now and again, if the project is good enough, one or two people will respond to the job. The rest of the time, we all start complaining and asking why the job isn't paid. Should we even allow UNPAID topics at all? It seems like UNPAID translates to FLAME WAR HERE at the moment, not that I'm saying everyone doesn't have valid points, but it isn't seen that way to the visitors. Just looking on both sides of the coin.

Re: Job post guidelines
BaronImpossible | 01/09/2005 @548 | edit post

I can't see why we need unpaid jobs at all. They damage the industry, have a detrimental effects on all artists, cause long repetetive posts (with my contribution) and have no benefit at all, apart from to the freeloader - I mean poster - who gets someting for nothing. And I think anything less than £50 (or $50) should be classed as "unpaid".

Re: Job post guidelines
Almost-Human | 01/09/2005 @552 | edit post

If it bothers you then simply just ignore it ! Im sure martin will delete any over the top posts.. We dont want a nanny state. lol

Re: Job post guidelines
Martin | 01/09/2005 @568 | edit post

There are degrees in unpaid jobs. I agree that artists shouldn't work on commercial projects at extremely low prices. However I have no problem with people posting about their non-profit project or 'hobby' project and asking others to join. Never the less these guys get flamed too, which is something I will attemp to prevent from now on. So before people open up their can of fire, make sure you get the nature of the project. Feel free to indicate that the job poster has a budget that doesn't make sense. Just be gentle with non-commercial initiatives. Afterall, that's how GFXartist came to be you know.

Re: Job post guidelines
kallen | 01/09/2005 @939 | edit post

Wouldn't it be better to have a hobby or project section? Rather then UNPAID. Then you know that everyone who posts projects there really means it as a hobby or a project. And if someone wanted to start an online gallery place like GFXartist or Epilogue...or an Elfwood etc....You could have a section for something like that...Maybe a Join section...like for gamers. The word Unpaid is like waving a red flag...also I imagine real scary to some kid right out of art school who wants a carreer in art and is going around to forums looking to see if anybody is hiring. It also might give them the impression that this is how you break into the art business. You work for free for publicity...which is a Wrong and actually putting a real hurting on the art business as well as breaking the heart of lots of artists and sending them to work at Micky D's because they think it is true...There is no money in art. Just like everyone told them when they wanted to follow their dream. Besides how do we know when it is someone who wants you to join their project or someone who wants to rip off artists. The spiel is about the same...unless they say this is just a hobby guys or something. Most of them read like legit jobs...they say they are corporations...they want tons of artwork for something that is going to be a big project and bring about fame and fortune for everyone they say it is nonprofit right now...but then you go to the sight and see T shirts for sale with artwork on it or paying ads... then you look up and it says UNPAID...makes you wonder if they put it under the wrong section or something. It also makes you see red...because most artists if they have been putting their work up on the internet for more then a minute are getting spammed with deals promising fame and fortune later when we all make it...lol. And lots of artists have fallen for it and worked themselves to the bone doing art only to never see it again. Everyday there is a new crop of young artists who don't know any better yet ready to be used. How do they know when it is someone who just wants to rip them or someone who wants to do a project for fun. If these posts were under Hobby then you know this is the fun section where people are doing hobby work...No problem...and it doesn't look like all there is out there for artists is unpaid work. Admittedly the real good jobs are not posted in forums. ADs will contact artists directly and or they have more then enough artists who are sending them their resume daily. But if they do post in forums which I have seen a few times then they post a job professionally and tell you everything you need to know to decide if this would be a job you would want to apply for. So a Paid section for jobs is real cool...even if some are really low paying jobs. The artists can discuss it and in a way that will help the poster too because they may realize that what they want to pay is not realistic at all and go get a loan or something. That isn't flamming. Both artists and employers need to know the going rates. It is helpful. In my book...a hobby or project section isn't as scary or flame inducing as that big UNPAID! LOL...scared me to death when I came here. And I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday. Kay

Re: Job post guidelines
BaronImpossible | 01/09/2005 @957 | edit post

quote:  Martin wrote on 01/09 @568 There are degrees in unpaid jobs. I agree that artists shouldn't work on commercial projects at extremely low prices. However I have no problem with people posting about their non-profit project or 'hobby' project and asking others to join. Often these turn out to be not what they seem. How many "personal projects" are really a bunch of people trying to get a commercial game or site underway for as little money as possible? How many "non-commercial" sites are really commercial sites just starting up? I would say most of them. And when the money comes in, will the artist see any of it? Pfff. Which is why I stress that if artists do give in to the bizarre impulse to give away their services then at least they insist a proper, workable CONTRACT be drawn up, stipulating - amoungst other things - that their work will not be used for commercial means.

Re: Job post guidelines
kallen | 01/10/2005 @093 | edit post

In a perfect world a contract would be binding...but for a fly by night operation you can use the contract for scrap paper to doodle on. Becuase they disappear and start up as someone else. Who knows who these people really are...It isn't like you check Identification. That is why the internet is rip off city....names that are phoney....20 emails.... So you can contract that they not use the work for profit..but how do you know...they are 10 states away or another country...How would you know if they sold prints of your work at the local art show. Ever been to an art/craft show...there is always a booth with hundreds and hundreds of prints selling for about 5 bucks each...done by hundreds of different artists...so where do these people in these booths get this artwork to make prints and how can they afford to sell them so cheap...*wink* Because the artist isn't getting paid anything...that is how. Wanna hear what a dummy I was...I got a contract with an address and phone number on it...called the number...talked with Mr Black....did an over the internet contract thing (I signed and faxed...he signed and faxed)...and later when he disappeared on me..and the emails bounced and the phone number was disconnected I decided to check out the address...LOL...Holiday Inn...So I had a contract with a ghost....and the contract he sent me that looked so official and fooled me...You can buy the same contract at the local stationary store. It is sad what they do...they talk the talk and sound so nice...and they are just starting out and they want you on board...and Gosh they are doing it for free now...so you should too. Basically when you read these posts you can swear that it is written by the same person....I wonder if they have a school for how to con yourself some free art because once you read one...you have read them all...just what they need changes...but even that doesn't change that much. Did you ever notice how they will always say they are artists too...Uh huh...artists that want you to work for free. But they have connections...uh huh...well why the heck aren't they doing their own art then...or talking to their connections. Seriously as a working artist would you ever dream of asking stranger artists to send you their art for your personal project. You might start an online gallery...you might talk with your artist friends about doing a project together but a Cattle Call for free art...nuh uh...artists don't do that. They know how much work is involved and support the business. These guys (wonder why they are always guys) also don't sound anything like the legit sites either. I have done lots of business with legit games and writers sites. It is so easy when it is legit...there is no whinning about the struggle and begging and posturing or promises of fame and fortune in the future...it is strictly business....How much for 20 portraits?...you send them the price and they hire you or don't. Simple. Oh and another thing I noticed is most of the time the writer sites have females as ADS too...well it is 50/50 like it should be. Kay

Re: Job post guidelines
graphicsguru | 01/11/2005 @592 | edit post

hello? is this thing on... I don't have any input here at the moment (yeah I know, imagine that) I just wanted to agree with Kay , again. I also wanted to say that the idea of seperate arenas for paid and not paid posts is an excellent idea. Anyway, I'll shut up now... [Message edited on 01/11 @593]

Re: Job post guidelines
johanflood | 01/16/2005 @183 | edit post

yeah but sometimes I have to defend people posting unpaid work. For example if you make a mod(ification) to an already existing game there is usually no money in that. So if you are intending to do a product which will be given away for free how can you pay people to work on that ? For some people making mods made it possible for them to get work in a game company later on. If you work with traditional painting for example just do a little research on the developing of games before you start to flame people. I did work myself for books like "Digital beauties" from Taschen and that was not paid work. I was really suprised that a big company like Taschen did not pay their artists. The work I did for Taschen resulted in that I got contacted from Wired magazine to do paid work later on so it got something good with it . Just my personal experience. From my experience there is much more money in 3d graphics for computer games than in 2d artwork for books etc. I vote for that you put everything UN-PAID in another thread. I assume most people looking for work want to get paid. [Message edited on 01/16 @213]

Re: Job post guidelines
MePhIstoZoR | 01/16/2005 @224 | edit post

Just a thought martin, maybe you should pin this thread? At least some people might catch it before they post, instead of the thread being lost in a few weeks.....

Re: Job post guidelines
kittyKat | 02/19/2006 @726 | edit post

an idea - vent session click it -----> GFX JOBS

Re: Job post guidelines
Acothea | 06/04/2006 @587 | edit post

I'm a bit unsure about something, and I thought it would be best to ask about it here before I posted and made a fool of myself. Are non-profit, personal requests allowed? Basically, is this strictly for job opportunities, or is the average person (aka, Myself) allowed to request a piece of artwork? If not, I understand, and I don't want to mess with the flow of the forum. I'm just, as I said, making sure I don't make a mistake. And if this isn't a place for requests such as that, does anyone know a site (or a place on this site) where such a request might be fulfilled? Thank you in advance.

Re: Job post guidelines
Wysiwyg | 06/04/2006 @669 | edit post

Non-profit, or charity type work is fine to advertise for... The reason Unpaid jobs get so much flak is because the majority of the time it's by someone or a group that is asking for a phenomenal amount of work/dedication to a project that WILL profit them, but not the artist. Or it's just an insane amount of time/dedication that would net big bucks had it been a paying job. For some who do strictly freelance, it's more likely to take 4-5 small easy jobs to compensate for one big job that pays well and also brings more fustration. Plus, smaller jobs are closed faster and thus pay sooner But if you are a non profit organization, be sure to mention that in your post, and just provide as much detail as possible.

Re: Job post guidelines
archer201977 | 07/13/2006 @132 | edit post

i agree with "hopeles" coz i think it's too difficult for us too dig-in for the green, i hate it when they do that "posting thing" commenting things for them selves and not wanting to hear from us... believe me, we're all "blah blah's" to them...

Re: Job post guidelines
IronGolem | 07/16/2007 @414 | edit post

I know this thread hasn't been posted on since last year, but I was wondering if you're still looking for volunteers to help out with the site. Please PM me in case you are. Thanks. Iron Golem -- ~ View artists work from Saatchi Gallery collection ~