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Painter 7 problems
No4h \| 06/13/2004 @500 \| edit post

I've trained myself in Painter 7 and I love the software, but until very recently I never tought of doing a painting for print. So I encountered some problems :

1) To print a decent picture, the resolution must be set at 300 dpi, which means your screen image must be drawn 4 times bigger than the actual size. That wouldn't be a problem in photoshop, because the picture at 25% looks neat, sharp, and perfect. But in Painter it's a different story. At any zoomed proportion other than 100%, the image gets crisp and blurred, which can be acceptable if I'm doing mere painting, but actually, my style is mostly drawing and inking, so it's very annoying since I need all the accuracy in the world ! (an example of the kind of picture I'm talking about : http://www.yoropa.lunarpages.com/saka/sketch/messing511.JPG )

2) I tried the script thing, but I have a problem : when I play a script with a different tool, It always select the airbrush by default. for example : I draw with a brush (say, smeary round) then I select opaque round to do the exact same drawing, but it goes automatically to the airbrush again ! which is very annoying. I checked up the help files, and I did exactly what's written there ! and it doesn't change anything. I don't understand.

3) and Oh, why I tried to draw with a different tool in the first place, is that because you can play a script in a different size, for example you draw a pic at 800x600, then you open a document at 3200x2400 and the script draws the same drawing 4 times bigger, and it adapts the tool too : if you were drawing at 1 pixel size, the tool gets 4 pixels. but there's a problem with this too : the "feature" option doesn't get scaled by the script. You draw with a brush at 14 pixels size, 3 pixels feature, and it remains 3 pixels feature, even if the other options are scaled. and this gives a very different look of the original recorded drawing.
I hope I wasn't very confusing in my explanations, and I hope you'll be able to help me !

In the meantime, I'd like to ask you about your preferred resolutions to work with. not the screen resolution, but actually, the size of the picture and its printing resolution. for example : 3200x2400 at 300 dpi. I'd also like to know what is the limit resolution that would make anything bigger useless as it wouldn't reflect in the quality of the print, and it would just make the file larger and waste disk space.

That's all. thank you very much in advance !

thank you in advance !

Re: Painter 7 problems
yerffej \| 06/14/2004 @026 \| edit post

I'm not sure I can help you with the other questions,but I know what you are talking about as far as line problems.In painter,i've never found a solution to this,but I dont under stand why you would want to paint or draw at 25% any way.Is'nt that kinda far?

I cant remember pixels exactly,but I always work at 600 dpi,just in case I want to print big someday.Also,I never print out of Painter7,always out of photoshop.It just has more options.I guess none of this will be a help,just thought i'd tell ya.

Re: Painter 7 problems
NeozooM \| 06/14/2004 @368 \| edit post

painting in 600 dpi is useless guy

But so for your zoom problem.. yes for this painter sucks!!
But you have just to draw you lineart messy on a layer and then put another layer on it and zoom in 100% and ink your outlines and in this way you'll be more precise

and you'll be in 100% you have just to sollow the path made by the "messy" outline under then delete the messy layer and you have your neat outline perfectly done ^^

Then for scripts yes there are a lot of problem with this feature ... :/
but anywayfor the default airbrush selec try to put all your variant used usuallly in default ... then it 'll work nomaly ...

nothing to help you more

And so nice pic BTW

Re: Painter 7 problems
No4h \| 06/14/2004 @374 \| edit post

Well, thank you guys, but I didn't really get any answer

; and for what you have said NeozooM, I think you got me wrong,
to ink a sharp line, you must do it in one stroke, and fast, which is impossible at 100 % because you'd have to scroll to see the rest of the image ! so basically, I'm still obliged to ink at 25 % ...
By the way, NeozooM, that picture isn't from me, but it's nice yeah !

Thanks again ...

Oh, I was wondering, are this problems fixed in Painter 8 ? It would be great ...

Re: Painter 7 problems
SeraFin \| 06/14/2004 @427 \| edit post

i have painter 8 and never tried the scripts but the 'working at anything other than 100%' is still a bugger for me. when i did some pieces similar in style to what you linked to, i found photoshop worked massively better which was saddening to me, as i'd hoped to do all my art in painter and leave photoshop to the photo retouching. hope you find your answer

Re: Painter 7 problems
Kallos \| 06/14/2004 @754 \| edit post

Painter is an awesome program, no doubt about that, but the zoom issues you're having are pretty standard. For art like the picture posted above, you really wouldn't need Painter though, unless you plan on coloring it in a more painterly style.

Either way, if you've got Photoshop, you might try using that for your line work, and then when you're ready to color, open the file in Painter. Painter should open it just fine, layers and all. That's about all I can offer there.

Something of note: Though I can't say for sure, I'm willing to bet that Photoshop's zoomed out views aren't actually any more accurate per say, so much as they look that way. It seems like Photoshop smoothes out what you see on screen through area averaging, filtering, or anti-aliasing of some kind, but if it didn't have that, it would look just like Painters zoomed out views. (Rough around the edges.) I could be wrong there, but I doubt it a little, because there's no way a standard monitor could smoothly, or accurately display so many pixels in such a small space. Extra filtering just makes it look like it can.

Personally, I just got used to the rough look and worked with it, because it still looks great when you zoom in. It's still a little annoying though.

Good luck

Re: Painter 7 problems
Kallos \| 06/14/2004 @769 \| edit post

Oh, and about those brush features not changing size when you scale up your resolution. That's also just another part of painter, unfortunately. It doesn't all work like that, but most of it does.

Painter is an incredibly complex program, and the programmers really have a lot to deal with. Even though we get a lot of great iimprovements with every new version, it's far from perfect, but they're working on it. I expect by version 15 they might be somewhere close to perfect.

I jest.

Painter has always been geared toward painting the final product and leaving it exactly how it is. Once you start resizing the image, you're putting your fate in your own hands, because you never know what's going to happen.

That really doesn't affect me though, because I don't use any impasto features, or anything like that. I use smeary brushes and things of that nature, but NEVER special variants. I resize my images all the time, so special variants are just out of the question, sadly.

Again, good luck. There's a LOT to learn about this program. I still learn something new about Painter almost every day.

[Message edited on 06/14 @770]

Re: Painter 7 problems
No4h \| 06/15/2004 @380 \| edit post

Kallos, you said "Either way, if you've got Photoshop, you might try using that for your line work, and then when you're ready to color, open the file in Painter. Painter should open it just fine, layers and all. That's about all I can offer there."

I'd say I'm using Painter *especially* for the line work ! haven't you noticed how working with lines is so much more natural and easy in Painter than in Photoshop ? try to draw something in Photoshop, and you'll end up with a shaky line and a bad ink effect, but in Painter, I don't know if this is due to a better use of the tablet capabilities, but it looks almost like you're drawing on paper.

Anyway, thank you for posting, but I guess my problem has no solution ... let's hope it will be fixed in version 9 then !

Re: Painter 7 problems
Kallos \| 06/16/2004 @622 \| edit post

Yeah, I have noticed that actually, but I completely forgot about it. I use photshop for graphic design stuff, but it's been over a year since I've done any drawing/ painting in it. Painter is just better.

What ever you do though, don't give up hope. I've had a lot of people tell me that Painter couldn't do something, but I kept trying anyway, and I found ways around certain problems.

If it helps, I've noticed that soft brush strokes don't look bad at all when you're zoomed out. If your lines are thin enough, it looks like a crisp, smooth line rather than an airbrush. However, your lines will not be accurate enough if you rely on masks or selections while coloring.

There's allso an "area averaging" option for zoomed out views, located in the edit > preferences menu. Unfortunately though, I can't see a difference on my system, in performance or graphical presentation. It doesn't seem better or worse in any respect, but you might have better luck with it than I do.

Wish I could help you more, but my knowlege is limited. If I happen to stumble on a solution, I'll post it in this thread.

[Message edited on 06/16 @622]

Re: Painter 7 problems
No4h \| 06/18/2004 @373 \| edit post

Thanks a lot Kallos

Re: Painter 7 problems
DrInker \| 06/18/2004 @859 \| edit post

Hello,
Just another little question about painter. The version of painter I got for free when I bought my tablet. Is that a full program or just some sort of demo?
Everybody here seems to work with painter 7, 6 or classic whatever. I got a Pro-Create painter. Anyone?

Re: Painter 7 problems
NeozooM \| 06/19/2004 @507 \| edit post

painter 7 is really great!
but guy you didn't understood work in 100 % is the best way but if you have a too big line go on photoshop and use plume...
it is perfect

Re: Painter 7 problems
PeachySticks \| 06/22/2004 @966 \| edit post

Yeah, working in Painterwhen zoomed to sizes other than 100% is a pain. Painter 8 still has the problem. I think it is possible to ink smooth lines in PS, it just takes a bit more effort. When you draw the line quick enough, it can be very smooth (you got "Smoothing" checked?) If the lines aren't right, there's always the eraser.

In PS it's actually better because the eraser is also hard-edged, but in Painter it's soft-edged and you can't really do anything about it, unless you work on one layer and use the brush set to the bg colour and erase with that... whatever works.

And that picture you linked to, maybe it wasn't done very large.

Re: Painter 7 problems
Jinny \| 06/22/2004 @362 \| edit post

_quote:
DrInker wrote on 06/18 @859
Hello,
Just another little question about painter. The version of painter I got for free when I bought my tablet. Is that a full program or just some sort of demo?
Everybody here seems to work with painter 7, 6 or classic whatever. I got a Pro-Create painter. Anyone?

DrInker,

The software that comes bundled with Wacom tablets is not procreate Painter. It's procreate Painter Classic 2. procreate no longer exists, but for a while it was the division of Corel that handled their graphics applications.

procreate Painter Classic 2 is not a full Painter version nor is it a demo version. It's a software unto itself, based on the full Painter version, Painter 7.

Its earlier version, Metacreations Painter Classic 1, was based on the full Painter version, Painter 5. At that time, all Painter software was owned by Metacreation. Shortly after Painter 6 was released, Corel purchased all Painter software, thus the confusion in company names.

Both Metacreations Painter Classic 1 and procreate Painter Classic 2 serve the purpose of introducing people to some of what full Painter versions offer, but they're very limited. Still, people do turn out some nice work with these two Painter Classic versions, and most eventually upgrade to the current full Painter version. Now that would be Painter 8.

Painter 9 is due to be released sometime later this year. No date at the moment.

Jinny Brown

Painter Classes at TutorAlley Forums
(** classes and new registrations temporarily
on hold due to family medical emergency **)
http://www.tutoralley.com
Painter Resources at PixelAlley
http://www.pixelalley.com/pixelalley-sections-pages.html
_____________________________________________

Re: Painter 7 problems
Jinny \| 06/22/2004 @381 \| edit post

_quote:
PeachySticks wrote on 06/22 @966
Yeah, working in Painterwhen zoomed to sizes other than 100% is a pain. Painter 8 still has the problem. I think it is possible to ink smooth lines in PS, it just takes a bit more effort. When you draw the line quick enough, it can be very smooth (you got "Smoothing" checked?) If the lines aren't right, there's always the eraser. In PS it's actually better because the eraser is also hard-edged, but in Painter it's soft-edged and you can't really do anything about it, unless you work on one layer and use the brush set to the bg colour and erase with that... whatever works.

And that picture you linked to, maybe it wasn't done very large.

Hi,

In Painter, you can create a custom brush variant that will erase with a more hard edge than the Erasers' Eraser variant has.

Choose the Pens' Flat Color variant.

Open the Painter 8 Brush Creator, Stroke Designer tab's General section (or the Painter 6 and Painter 7 Brush Controls palette's General section) and change the Method to Eraser.

Save the custom variant with a unique name not already used by Painter, something like "My Hard Edge Eraser".

Open a new white Canvas, choose black as your Primary color, and paint two long diagonal lines on the Canvas, using the Pens' Scratchboard Tool.

Choose the Erasers' Eraser variant, or flip your Wacom stylus upside down, and paint a diagonal line, perpendicular to the black lines, through both black lines. Then paint a vertical line through both black lines.

Choose your custom "My Hard Edge Eraser" variant and repeat, making first a diagonal stroke, then a vertical stroke through another part of your black lines.

Now compare the results and see if you have an eraser that works for you in Painter.

Jinny Brown

Painter Classes at TutorAlley Forums
(** classes and new registrations temporarily
on hold due to family medical emergency **)
http://www.tutoralley.com
Painter Resources at PixelAlley
http://www.pixelalley.com/pixelalley-sections-pages.html
_____________________________________________

Re: Painter 7 problems
AnimadversioN \| 07/02/2004 @860 \| edit post

Well, thats the thing... when I create something completely 100% on the computer I do the linkwork in photoshop and then take it into painter to do the color. Photoshop has less problems with aliasing, but is very resource hungry and using the smudge tool to blend colors at high resolutions is useless, which is why I use Painter to color my work 90% of the time. But in all honesty, I don't think that there is any true way to get around zoom aliasing with raster based programs, it's just simply the nature of the beast. As far as the scripting... yeah, pain in the ass big time, I rarely ever use it anymore.

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