Artwork Submission Limit

omni  05/15/06 @762

wow. been gone a long time, nice to see some changes happening. this is definately an excellent idea.

sdavis75  05/15/06 @770

Great idea! Edit: I do think 6 seems a bit too tight of a limit, but we'll see.

Almost-Human  05/15/06 @800

Only 6 in a MONTH??? This is really going to mess me up !! LOL Its a great idea !!

Martin  05/15/06 @803

For the record and to counter AH's confusing reaction: the initial limit is 6 artworks per month. We've kept it tight so we tweak it in a positive sense rather than a negative one.

pawlack  05/15/06 @847

I AGREE great idea.

ThruMyEyez  05/15/06 @858

It would have been good to start the count from today as now I can't submit a work for over two weeks but overall a good idea. I agree with sdavis it might be a bit tight but let's see what happens.

Wallace  05/15/06 @863

Excellent! although I feel sorry for A-H. Perhaps you could give him a 'special' treatment?

moserArtist  05/15/06 @866

An interesting approach. Think this is rather odd starting it in the middle of the month. Changing rules in the middle of the month is not very smart. I'd announce it, give it 2 weeks and start it by June 1st. If we know in advance we will adjust accordingly. This starting today is just stupid Being able to post 1 pic every 3rd day would give max 10 posts which would seem a less drastic change and a good interim solution. What if a post gets lousy points is it then possible to delete it and get a new one to post within the limits?

Byonder  05/15/06 @866

@moser: Why, so people could take advantage of the last two weeks in the month to flood the hell out of the gallery? Nah... Well, you guys already know my thoughts about this It's cool to see a response, and pretty quickly too!

moserArtist  05/15/06 @875

Would be fun to see the judges changing the rules in the midtime of for example a soccer game... The idea of limiting the number of posts is definitely good. The exact number of posts which will be the limit should to be monitored and tuned accordingly by the admins of gfx and eventually the limit will be a fare one. Still can't see the point by doing the change in the middle of the month. I don't think the flooding of the last two weeks is a serious issue. It is just not fare play with those who have already reached their limit. Unless they can delete posts and post others as long as the posted are within the boundaries (ie 6 posts as per the decision). Only one member benefits from this rule change in the middle of the month... Who would that be LOL

Juro  05/15/06 @875

Good, this should separate the artists from the spammers.

slaphapy5  05/15/06 @875

awesome idea! Mark

moserArtist  05/15/06 @877

So ThruMyEyes has reached the limit of 6 post already (not knowing the rule change) and do you then include him in the group of spammers???

hermik  05/15/06 @878

that is one hell of a tight number of submissions for a photographer, but I feel it's worth a shot! I think the idea behind it is right, and a trying it could result in a quality increase. I can however understand moserArtist's concerns - I think that the site might suffer very few submission on the end of this month since many people reached their limit today (as did I, no submissions from me this month any more!). STILL, in my oppinion it is OK to do it now, because it can also have it's benefits: giving people who don't post much even more exposure until the end of this month. After that it's all back to the "new" normal, so I wouldn't worry about it. I don't know what's wrong with me, this is my third forum activity today...

ThruMyEyez  05/15/06 @879

Spam, spam, spam!! We be spamming!!

Byonder  05/15/06 @879

I don't know, who would that be?

sdavis75  05/15/06 @885

We all know, Brandon, that this is part of your secret plan to acheive Elite status.

Byonder  05/15/06 @888

Curses, foiled again! I would say that the submission limit probably shouldn't apply to the "elites" since there really isn't a reason for them to flood (a.k.a flooding days are over/mission accomplished).

Martijn  05/15/06 @888

quote: Still can't see the point by doing the change in the middle of the month. I don't think the flooding of the last two weeks is a serious issue. It is just not fare play with those who have already reached their limit. Unless they can delete posts and post others as long as the posted are within the boundaries (ie 6 posts as per the decision). I can understand your concerns, but we felt that we'd better introduce this rule now, then wait another 2 weeks. However it is possible to delete artworks you don't want, (just unpublishing is not enough) and publish new one's. So you can still choose which artworks you want to add this month.

Byonder  05/15/06 @891

All the points on a deleted artwork will be lost though, correct? So someone can't upload six - delete - upload another six - delete, and still end up with 9,000 points at the end of the month?

ThruMyEyez  05/15/06 @892

If you look at the other categories other than photography in the elite galleries, I believe they already have too few submissions. I would think the elite section would be encouraged to have submissions but I understand the argument of photos vs. other categories would probably surface again.

moserArtist  05/15/06 @896

FUN FUN FUN!!! So that means that one needs to be tactical too... Assuming that the limit of 6 has been reached and the lowest scored post is not high enough you just delete it and go for another one (with the hope that taking that risk was worth it ie resulting in more points)... Good point mentioned brandon regarding voiding elite posts... Try looking at how many reaches more than 6 posts in any other elite gallery apart from photography...??? Can't be more than max 5 persons, right?! So now you have decided to go for this new rule by today... Sounds rather drastical. Pull it out and start June 1st. That is the only decent thing to do. You don't change rules in the middle of the "game"... Wow, I just counted my posts... Puh Still one to deliver before the end of the month, lucky me!

moserArtist  05/15/06 @906

MARTIN/MARTIJN PLEASE READ THIS COMMENT!!! AND JURO AND WYSIWYG... ======================================= Just thought of another inconsistancy with the rule in the middle of the month. How would you handle those having already posted more than 6 pics up until today??? Will they still keep all of their votes/points and thereby get an unfair advantage versis other members who have not yet reached that magical limit of 6 posts?! Or are you going to randomly delete any of their posts above 7. I think THIS IS THE SINGLE BASIC REASON WHY YOU CAN'T CHANGE THE RULES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MONTH... Just take it back and start June 1st... The idea is still in the right direction to get better quality shots posted and less spamming!

ARTOONATOR  05/15/06 @907

Great, more balance between photography and the other arts. I like it. Nothing against photo's though, but this might make a change for the better.

RobertVovk  05/15/06 @907

Ok, nevertheless, you can't change rules in the middle of the game. June 1st is the only date that makes sense.

ThruMyEyez  05/15/06 @910

I realize the arguments about flooding and in some cases the almost fanatical drive to reach "elite" status by using the number of submissions. Again, in general, I agree with the action just taken. Patrick is correct in that the tactics will change but now the quality might improve so it's not a bad thing. I do disagree with Brandon's generalization : "I would say that the submission limit probably shouldn't apply to the "elites" since there really isn't a reason for them to flood (a.k.a flooding days are over/mission accomplished)." Most elites were not elected by flooding. My submission rate was the same in the members galleries as in the elite galleries and speaking personally, I was unaware of the requirements of being nominated when it occurred and never really considered it when posting my work. I've said this many times before and again I'll say I have no problem with rule changes as most seem to be for an overall improvement of quality and as such are worth trying. I think this may help with some of the inequalities of the current system. I think initiating this two weeks into the month with no advance notice was probably not the best way to implement it.

Kaduflyer  05/15/06 @913

6 a month!!!...man if I had the time to paint 6 good paintings a month I'd be a VERY happy guy! I bet those artists planning to illustrate The 7 Deadly Sins are gonna be annoyed!! Good idea though...seems a simple solution to some of the current problems!

emarts  05/15/06 @917

Dang, and I was just about to dump my vacation pictures here.

ThruMyEyez  05/15/06 @918

I want to see your vacation pics Samson!!! Can we get you an exemption?

kittyKat  05/15/06 @919

I just wanna say I really do like this new feature (what ever you wanna call it) but first thing that came to mind was paying members maybe they could have a bit more? I mean they do pay... maybe regular members only 6 per month and paying members maybe 10 per month just an idea.

moserArtist  05/15/06 @924

Will being a plus member thereby result in better quality posts? Don't really understand that logic

ThruMyEyez  05/15/06 @925

I agree! Paying members already have extra features and putting down your hard earned money should not be used to give them an advantage in the posting/point system. Plus members not only receive the extra features but more importantly support this sight and all that comes with it!

Furitsu  05/15/06 @927

It's an excellent idea, but best to start it at the beginning of next month, in my opinion.

Wysiwyg  05/15/06 @929

@Moser...I find it insulting that you keep referring this to a 'game' it's not. And Elite isn't a trophy. This site is based on the premise that people can learn/grow from one another in an artistic sense. @Everyone... I mean seriously, now if someone is going to go through the bother of posting works, not liking their point total, and unpublishing to put up a better work for more points....get a damn life. Some to be missing the point of this 'cap'. If points are truly your concern, and this is causing you to lose sleep at night...the perhaps GFX isn't the place for you. But if you feel eliteness is that big a deal, then just push yourself in creating better work, and it will come to you. Feel proud knowing it was accomplished through artistic merit and not an exploitation of a system flaw.

moserArtist  05/15/06 @933

@Wysiwyg: I wrote "game" (see the quotation marks). Of course I know of the general purpose idea of gfx. To share art and learn and share knowledge with others! Fine, still this is a site with rules on how to do most things. No crit on any of that. My crit comes ONLY on the timing for doing the change. I think you too can admit to this fact that it was maybe not so smart doing in the middle of a month. Or?

Juro  05/15/06 @934

Moserartist said: "So ThruMyEyes has reached the limit of 6 post already (not knowing the rule change) and do you then include him in the group of spammers???" No one is including anyone, I can't recall anyone mentioning any names here. I'll put a question to you now: are you saying spamming never happened to reach the elite gallerys by any member? If your answer to this is yes it has happend, then that is reason enough to have this system implemented. Our gallerys desparately need quality and people striving to reach it, rather than members posting everything they can to get a gold badge...

ThruMyEyez  05/15/06 @939

I sense this is heading to an all encompassing discussion on the vote, point system which has been discussed to death. I see no one arguing against the rule change but mainly about how it was implemented. As I said, I can live with it, it might help matters, but to do it mid-month probably was not the best idea.

moserArtist  05/15/06 @940

@Juro: I was just referring to Gary's earlier comment that he had reached the limit. I was being ironic in my statement (kapisch?). Spamming may have occurred in order for some to reach the nominees for elite. To that I would say yes, but not to reach it. AGAIN - I Agree on this rule change being good. Still the way it is implemented is not 100%. Do that change June 1st. Apparently I am not the only one reaching to this conclusion.

hermik  05/15/06 @940

actually I can't understand all the fuzz about points and numbers, esp. not from folks with elite status. I still think it's a good way of keeping the quality up.

ThruMyEyez  05/15/06 @943

Actually I've never been too concerned about points or numbers but only enjoy sharing my photos and the comments. I earn no money, free vacations, photo groupies, or any other benefits from having a #2 photo in the top 10 or a #5 photo. I do appreciate having a high rated photo and that people enjoy my work. We all earn the benefits of belonging to GFX and seeing that it operates in the best manner possible!

zanzibar  05/15/06 @948

I would like to see something more like loosing the elite status and the vote points after a time of innactivity.... This change is good but not enough.... And timing is not the best one indeed.

EDi  05/15/06 @955

Does the unused postings cumulates in the next month? Good idea, anyway.

sdavis75  05/15/06 @957

Regarding the timing of this implementation, I think the point is that the powers that be think that gallery flooding is a problem that needs to be corrected NOW, not two weeks from now. As far as the changing the rules half-way through the "game" argument, it only further reinforces why this limit was created in the first place.

Juro  05/16/06 @961

Moserartist said: "AGAIN - I Agree on this rule change being good. Still the way it is implemented is not 100%. Do that change June 1st. Apparently I am not the only one reaching to this conclusion" Why would the timing annoy anyone other than the gallery spammers anyway? This change would only affect the people posting too much work per month, in which case it was designed to stop this. Why does timing come into it? I don't get your point.

ogu  05/16/06 @961

I think this is a bad idea ... I understand the flooding issue but I think it's fun to communicate with people and discuss different pictures. I think another measureing system is a better. I do not publish a pic a day to become elite !!! I publish a pic when I think it's something I like to share. Or want an opion I think people like byonder could stop complaing and accept the site as it is ... Sometimes the complaining is marketing to get points ...

Juro  05/16/06 @965

"I understand the flooding issue but I think it's fun to communicate with people and discuss different pictures" It's even more fun to discuss quality pictures. Can you imagine how annoying it is to an artist who speads a week on a painting, posts his work, only to have it flushed away in a few hours by endless sketches and snapshots. I can.

ogu  05/16/06 @966

Yes but everyone is beginners sometime and need to get feedback If Im an beginner I may not know a quality picture ...

ogu  05/16/06 @968

Who will decide what a 'quality picture' is ?

ogu  05/16/06 @968

make for example the publishing anynomus for like the first 5 days. then it will be more creative and intresting ...

Juro  05/16/06 @969

The guidelines, and mods decide what is acceptable The anonymous system has been mentioned before, we have styles to our art and signatures...

sdavis75  05/16/06 @970

@ogu: I think "beginners" are expected to take advantage of the WIP forums. I don't think the galleries were ever intended to be for anyone who happens to own a digital camera or a copy of Photoshop.

Juro  05/16/06 @971

What most people don't realise is much more help is available in the forums for everyone, rather than the gallerys. If members see a sketch or below par work in the finished gallerys, they'll just ignor it and move one. Most of these works won't even get past the thumbnail.

moserArtist  05/16/06 @974

@Juro: Read my earlier comment above. I included you in the heading so it will be easy for you to find... To reemphasize I am just talking about the DATE FOR THE NEW RULE TO BE IMPLEMENTED...

Juro  05/16/06 @976

Still doesn't explain why the begining of the month would be better: 6 artworks is 6 artworks anytime of the year. Anyway it's in place now, we'll have to live with that. Personally I agree with it, to me mixing fast turn over artworks like photography in with work that can take weeks to create just one, has never been very fair anyway....

ogu  05/16/06 @976

And when is a beginner not an hangaround ?

moserArtist  05/16/06 @977

If 6 artworks is the basis for being nominated then it matters. If you have a site where one of the triggers is nomination and elite status then it matters. This will be my last comment on this topic... Don't even know why I bothered...

Juro  05/16/06 @980

Me neither Being an elite has always been a big thing to you anyway, lets face it...

ThruMyEyez  05/16/06 @981

I agree Patrick. For two weeks this month the system was on the old rules. The last two weeks in the nomination cycle is now under different rules. Obviously it doesn't affect either you or I. I can wait two weeks to submit another photo but I do believe it adds an untried and disruptive element to this months vote and point totals for those it does affect. Like Patrick, I've said my opinion and will leave this thread to the comments of others.

Andy--Jones  05/16/06 @985

I am all for this evolution. Nice one. ogu, don't forget that if you are a beginner (or a seasoned pro for that matter) and need loads of help and feedback , the WIP forum is an excellent showcase for that. In fact I think now that more people will use the WIP forum, more people will participate in it too.

ogu  05/16/06 @986

I think it's a pitty that all pictures need to be super quality all the time. For me elite is someone I can learn from. I think we could rename it to mentors. A mentor can give constructive critic's and show the way. Not show the way how to win the months competition. Some picture's deserves to be shown so we can learn from them. I can always open up 6 account's ogu1,ogu2,ogu3,ogu4,ogu5 and ogu6 and show my pic's anyway. Sleep tigth everyone ...

Juro  05/16/06 @988

Well thats one way to get ip banned, esp with all these new mods around And yes we are striving for a super quality site, not another DA/Elfwood free for all.

Traff  05/16/06 @993

I welcome the posting restrictions. They're not ideal but as a short-gap solution they will also help open up elite nominations to photographers who don't want to flood the gallery with their 2nd, 3rd, 4th rate works culled from their archives (if it wasn'y any good to publish 12 months ago how come it's good now?. If we concentrate on creating art instead of collecting points it can only be of benefit to Gfx as a whole.

ogu  05/16/06 @994

Can we have some statistic's ? How many are adding a pic a day ? Is it different between art and photos ? What is the avarage publishing ?

acida  05/16/06 @996

i think 6 limit per month is fair enough.

Traff  05/16/06 @997

Ogu - last months photo nominees had to publish an average 23 photos during the month (1.3 per day) to be nominated - Painters a 'typical' 5 per month. the discrepency is phenominal... I think a limit of 6 is a pretty good starting point... Phill

Byonder  05/16/06 @000

6 pieces a month is 6 pieces...whether it's now or next month, who cares? It's still 6 pieces. If you tell people in advance, they'll just use the time to abuse the system...it's human nature. If you absolutely HAVE to have a different set of 6 pieces for this month, just delete a few you've already uploaded. Patrick, why are you arguing for Gary? He doesn't seem to be incredibly perturbed, and you've already got your trophy, so what's the problem? Hey look on the bright side, at least this change wasn't implemented three months ago I have another suggestion, specifically for the "elites." How about expanding the new-submission bar to 2 lines, like the members have, except making one bar specifically for photography? That way the elite painters/illustrators/etc. who have a much slower turn-over rate will still get a good amount of exposure before having their work pushed off the front page.

ThruMyEyez  05/16/06 @003

Good idea on the front page Brandon! Now I'm off to seek therapy to deal with these changes!!

ogu  05/16/06 @005

Agree with u ThruMyEyez need to seek therapy ... My complete week is destroyed.. I can not publish more than 2 more pic's this month ... Maybe time for some fishing ...

Martijn  05/16/06 @011

When limiting something, the moment to implement it is never the right moment. If we'd waited 2 more weeks, it would still be unfair to some of you. About the elite's: We didn't bother about them that much. Tomorrow i will pump up some statistics, but I don't think there are (that m)any elites who "suffer" from this rule. About paying members: No, paying members will not be able to upload more artworks. This would give them an unfair advantage in the system in relation tot non paying members.

kittyKat  05/16/06 @045

ok... another question making post limited with posting will this give members a fair chance to get the points to get nominated? lets use 3D modeling for example many people vote but I guess they never get enough votes to even make any of the nominations so will this be like this through out all the categories? is it possible to get enough points with 6 posts? sorry if thats a silly question I guess you need over 500 points to get nominated? ok so ya it is possible never mind I just answered my self just pretend I was never here

Andy--Jones  05/16/06 @054

yes it is possible as I got nominated with 3 pieces last month But I dont normally post that many. I think my average is 1 or 2 a month.

coladelight  05/16/06 @193

I agree with the limit. It will be interesting to see it's effectivity in the quality of the entries in the gallery. I'm optimistic though I can already feel the load of work the moderators will be having from now...I've been a bit timid in sending messages to you guys when I see something out of order but started doing it recently and even sent messages to the members what I feel about their works when something is amiss instead of just commenting. Baby steps for me Maridol

kemp  05/16/06 @213

GREAT ! Probably the best thing that could happen here. ... oh, and for those who actually feel frustrated about this... keep in mind that the forum is always there... and it's a great place to post "unfinished" and "unperfect" works.

Squeaky  05/16/06 @221

Uh oh! I really don't like this! I understand the point for a lot of people, but I'm extremely prolific, and they aren't just 10 minute sketches. Each takes many hours. The only reason I make so much art is because I am ALWAYS ALWAYS drawing.... so if I were to post something and it not be up to par, Id understood if it were taken down, but if I have more pictures I worked hard on, I dunno what I'd do I'd be really disappointed. And I'm not one of the ones going for elite, I could hardly care less, I just love posting hew stuff. I just, by nature, work very very fast. My portraits only take a couple hours and I'm very proud and want to share them, I feel my gallery should reflect this as me as an artist, I've always wanted it to be very full because it shows how passionate I am. Oh well I don't know what will happen. I know I've done more than six before though.

shakadelic  05/16/06 @249

yay its all for the good. thumbs up

Thorsten  05/16/06 @268

Wow, this might give me the chance to watch the whole gallery in the near future. And who knows, maybe there is even time to start drawing myself after watching it.

Jane  05/16/06 @295

I believe this is a change for the better. Great idea!

MePhIstoZoR  05/16/06 @373

Yeah i'm all for it, sounds like a great change to me

Martin  05/16/06 @393

First and foremost, this limit is a measure to 'help' members submit their best work vs. every single thing they mock up. First step towards a better quality is to force people to pick their best ones. I agree with  zanzibar that this measure will not properly fix the problems around the elite nomination process, but it does limit the damage. By imposing this limit now we are getting reactions from members who are actually directly limited by the measure. I agree that a 1st of June may have made sense, but the limit won't be any different now than it will be next month. I must say I'm quite happy with the feedback so far and convinced that this limit will do the site good.

robwo  05/16/06 @434

100% agreed! I think this is the right way to go. If you ask me, even 4 uploads per month (1 for every week) would be enough.

kemp  05/16/06 @482

...and I'll add this : it's often part of the artist day-to-day work to be confronted to his/her own work and have to choose what he/she actually consider to be his/her best works. It's a hard process, but it's part of the job.

Diane  05/16/06 @489

That's really a great idea! It will allow painters / drawers / 3D artists / design artists and photographers who don't post 2000000 arworks per month to get some positive feedback / have more exposure instead of disappearing from the thumbnails list in less than 2 hours. New members will also have more exposure. It's a fair number and a great change for the better! For those who want to share sketches, speedpaintings or lots of shots they don't consider as their best ones, there are the forums Byonder's idea about the front page list is nice but it may be unfair for regular members. Great idea, thanks a lot for this change!

Cigaro  05/16/06 @524

ahhh...ok this is an extremely good change in matter of drawing and painting categories...but what about photography? there are a lot of members who post about 10 works every month and every single one imo is great...and everyone knows that if you want to get in the photography noms you have to have a pretty big ammount of submissions in that field every month but anyway...it still won't affect anything in a major sense, the good guys will get the same attention imo

headhake  05/16/06 @539

I think it is a great idea... but i think 6 maybe be a little tiny one... for example... there are some series that are for example made by 7 photos ( like one i am working on ) maybe i would point that maybe between 7 and 10 photos would be great... it obvious that are spam pictures ( maybe mine are too ) but i think that 6 maybe be a little bit too restricted to some of the non-spam artists... it is true that i don't submit a work for sometime now... I'm not having time in my life to be focused on my photos, but i think i could have a point here... just to be sure everyone understood me... i love the idea i just think that 6 is a little bit to exagerated ... about been put this limit right away i agree... it doesn't matter if it is now or in june... the sooner the better... Hugo Zenha

trevorm  05/16/06 @544

Agreed that the middle of the month wasn't the best timing, but overall, I think this is a great idea! Let's give it a try

moserArtist  05/16/06 @550

@Martin: Just made a small check into who, from the latest top 10 in the photography section, had posted already more than 6 pics (not a 100% accurate finding but still pointing out the minor issue here). The following members have posted already more than the limit of 6 posts. How are you going to handle any of them if they make it into nominations?  cherriness (8 posts)  tetbautista (7 posts)  RobertVovk (7 posts) Just curious... This is the problem with starting this in the middle of the month The idea is great and you seem to have 100% support from reading the comments and from me!